URGENT - Loss of Job while waiting for PR Application (CEC) to be processed

[Raising Star]

This gives me a little bit of hope because I also lost 50 points because of not being able to work anymore in Canada. My BOWP was also refused because I was stupid enough to travel outside of Canada while under implied status. I applied and got an acknowledgment of receipt on 28th October 2018. At that point I still had the job and a valid job offer as well. I lost my job on 10th January 2018 due to my BOWP being refused as I left the country.

However, my application has been delayed and is still stuck on eligibility review which makes me so nervous. Hoping for the best outcome!

This portion of the law is not aware by many even the CIC doesn't follow this rule consistently.
1. Did you inform CIC about the job loss ?
2. If i can know what is the reason for your Review Required?
3. Your Visa office ?

 

[iiqra]

This portion of the law is not aware by many even the CIC doesn't follow this rule consistently.
1. Did you inform CIC about the job loss ?
2. If i can know what is the reason for your Review Required?
3. Your Visa office ?

If they were to refuse me based on this, would I be able to appeal and maybe get a lawyer involved or write to CIC about this rule?
Yes I got my PM involved as well and made sure CIC is aware of my Job situation - when i landed after my travel, an agent actually made sure to include that I can not work in Canada from that point on.
My visa office is in canada - i think toronto? How do i find out for sure. (I applied from within toronto).

 

[iiqra]

If they were to refuse me based on this, would I be able to appeal and maybe get a lawyer involved or write to CIC about this rule?
Yes I got my PM involved as well and made sure CIC is aware of my Job situation - when i landed after my travel, an agent actually made sure to include that I can not work in Canada from that point on.
My visa office is in canada - i think toronto? How do i find out for sure. (I applied from within toronto).

sorry i dont know the reason of review required. CIC doesnt tell my anything. i ordered GCMS notes on 7th May hoping to get them some time next week i guess.

 

[Raising Star]

If they were to refuse me based on this, would I be able to appeal and maybe get a lawyer involved or write to CIC about this rule?
Yes I got my PM involved as well and made sure CIC is aware of my Job situation - when i landed after my travel, an agent actually made sure to include that I can not work in Canada from that point on.
My visa office is in canada - i think toronto? How do i find out for sure. (I applied from within toronto).

I didnt get this "- when i landed after my travel, an agent actually made sure to include that I can not work in Canada from that point on."
I believe we dont have office in Toronto
Let's hope for the best as there is lot of ambiguity and i dont know about the appeal process someone senior should be able to guide you. Between did you claim points for the job offer, if that was the case you should worry else no issues

 

[antpgomes]

Just wanted to take a second to provide a quick update on my situation hoping it will help someone else.

After I submitted my response to the visa officer, and having mentioned that even if 50 points were to be deducted from my CRS score, my score would still be above the cutoff score (489 vs 449). Earlier this week I received a message asking me to submit my passport or a copy of my passport to the Visa Office. I believe this means my application is visa ready and they will be sending my COPR back in the mail.

I'm inclined to think initially the VO just didn't do the math. Hope this helps

 

[Raising Star]

Just wanted to take a second to provide a quick update on my situation hoping it will help someone else.

After I submitted my response to the visa officer, and having mentioned that even if 50 points were to be deducted from my CRS score, my score would still be above the cutoff score (489 vs 449). Earlier this week I received a message asking me to submit my passport or a copy of my passport to the Visa Office. I believe this means my application is visa ready and they will be sending my COPR back in the mail.

I'm inclined to think initially the VO just didn't do the math. Hope this helps

Did you consult any immigration lawyer before sending a response ?

 

[antpgomes]

Did you consult any immigration lawyer before sending a response ?

I did not. I called Immigration and they too suggested a simple response indicating I was applying under CEC and even if 50 points were to be deducted I would still be well above CRS cutoff. You can find my response below. Hope others find it helpful!

Dear Consulate Officer,

I am providing this letter of explanation as a response to your request letter dated May 15, 2019.
Thank you kindly for communicating your concerns regarding my application to become a
permanent resident of Canada.

I would like to clarify that I am applying under the Canadian Experience Class. Your concern that I
may not hold a valid arranged employment offer appears to be related to the Federal Skilled Worker
Program. I confirmed with the agent I spoke with at 8AM morning that my application is being
considered under CEC.

I would also like to clarify that upon losing my job, I immediately contacted CIC to notify them of
this changes in circumstances.

I had the opportunity to speak with one of your representatives this morning who confirmed that
having a valid job offer is not a requirement to apply under CEC. I would like to add however that
immediately after losing my job on February 21st, which occurred through no fault of my own, I took
the following steps:

• February 22 – Obtained letter of explanation from Employer and forwarded this information to
CIC. Please see attachment on Page 2
• February 25 – Applied for Bridge Open Work Permit. Please see attachment on Page 3
• February 27 – Received email confirmation from CIC that the information I provided regarding
loss of job was communicated to the responsible office for their consideration. Please see
attachment on Page 4
• May 1 – Signed Job Offer with Canadian Employer (start date pending issuance of BOWP or
PR). Please see attachment on Pages 5-6

Lastly, the representative I spoke with this morning mentioned that 50 points were awarded for the
previous job offer. While I understand your concern, the cutoff score at the time of my application on
January 4th was around 449, according to the information provided to me by the agent I spoke with
this morning, whereas my score was 539. Even if those points were to be withdrawn, I believe this
wouldn’t hinder my application.
I hope the above information is sufficient to mitigate your concerns.
If you have any other questions please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

[Raising Star]

I did not. I called Immigration and they too suggested a simple response indicating I was applying under CEC and even if 50 points were to be deducted I would still be well above CRS cutoff. You can find my response below. Hope others find it helpful!

Thanks and finally did CIC say that if we loose job after AOR the 50 points will be deducted ?

 

[antpgomes]

Thanks and finally did CIC say that if we loose job after AOR the 50 points will be deducted ?

They did not. I didn't really get a response related to their earlier concern about the job loss. Instead, they asked to send my passport (or copy, depending on your country of origin) to Ottawa, along with 2 pictures and a return XpressPost envelope.

 

[Raising Star]

I did not. I called Immigration and they too suggested a simple response indicating I was applying under CEC and even if 50 points were to be deducted I would still be well above CRS cutoff. You can find my response below. Hope others find it helpful!

Thanks a lot and it is very

They did not. I didn't really get a response related to their earlier concern about the job loss. Instead, they asked to send my passport (or copy, depending on your country of origin) to Ottawa, along with 2 pictures and a return XpressPost envelope.

Congrats.Sorry for asking again but did call centre folks confirm that 50 points will not deducted even if we loose the job ? The reason for querying again it will be helpful for many folks whose PR goes unforseen delay and during the process they end up loosing thier jobs

 

[antpgomes]

Thanks a lot and it is very

Congrats.Sorry for asking again but did call centre folks confirm that 50 points will not deducted even if we loose the job ? The reason for querying again it will be helpful for many folks whose PR goes unforseen delay and during the process they end up loosing thier jobs

No worries. I'm happy to help to the best of my ability!

My understanding based on two phone calls with different agents is YES. If you lost your job after you applied for PR those 50 points will be deducted from your CRS score. I also believe that if you were to secure a new LMIA with a different employer you would be able to offset that loss

 

[Raising Star]

No worries. I'm happy to help to the best of my ability!

My understanding based on two phone calls with different agents is YES. If you lost your job after you applied for PR those 50 points will be deducted from your CRS score. I also believe that if you were to secure a new LMIA with a different employer you would be able to offset that loss

Thanks Gomes. Which is different that what is mentioned in the link which I posted earlier. Lot of ambiguity.

 

[jes_ON]

No worries. I'm happy to help to the best of my ability!

My understanding based on two phone calls with different agents is YES. If you lost your job after you applied for PR those 50 points will be deducted from your CRS score. I also believe that if you were to secure a new LMIA with a different employer you would be able to offset that loss

That is certainly how IRCC has handled it in the past - if you lose your job, you lose your 50 pts, before or after you submit your eAPR (lock-in date). There have been cases where people either changed jobs with a new LMIA, or lost and then found a new one during processing, and IRCC accepted that.

I agree that there is more ambiguity now than in the past in the information presented by IRCC - for example, the page on job offers was just updated on 2019-05-15, and the information that used to be there about the job loss and loss of 50 pts has been removed.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/offer-employment.html

However, it is still in the Ministerial Instructions:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-application-management-system.html
"Loss of offer or inability to perform duties
(3) If the offer referred to in subsection (1) is revoked or ceases to be a qualifying offer of arranged employment or if the foreign national is unable to perform the duties of the employment or is unlikely to agree to perform them, the foreign national is no longer entitled to the points assigned under subsection (1) in respect of that offer and the total number of points assigned to the foreign national under the Comprehensive Ranking System is to be adjusted accordingly."

I am wondering if there has been a court case (if so, I haven't found it yet, it might be pending) about the apparent contradiction in rules pointed out earlier in this thread (where changes after the lock-in date should only be considered if they affect program eligibility).

In any case - Unless/until the Ministerial Instructions change with a program update, however, I would expect IRCC to continue handling the loss of job offers the way they have since the inception of the Express Entry system - you lose the points and possibly your ITA.

So, if you lose your job offer, do your best to get a new one as quickly as possible -

 

[Raising Star]

That is certainly how IRCC has handled it in the past - if you lose your job, you lose your 50 pts, before or after you submit your eAPR (lock-in date). There have been cases where people either changed jobs with a new LMIA, or lost and then found a new one during processing, and IRCC accepted that.

I agree that there is more ambiguity now than in the past in the information presented by IRCC - for example, the page on job offers was just updated on 2019-05-15, and the information that used to be there about the job loss and loss of 50 pts has been removed.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/offer-employment.html

However, it is still in the Ministerial Instructions:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-application-management-system.html
"Loss of offer or inability to perform duties
(3) If the offer referred to in subsection (1) is revoked or ceases to be a qualifying offer of arranged employment or if the foreign national is unable to perform the duties of the employment or is unlikely to agree to perform them, the foreign national is no longer entitled to the points assigned under subsection (1) in respect of that offer and the total number of points assigned to the foreign national under the Comprehensive Ranking System is to be adjusted accordingly."

I am wondering if there has been a court case (if so, I haven't found it yet, it might be pending) about the apparent contradiction in rules pointed out earlier in this thread (where changes after the lock-in date should only be considered if they affect program eligibility).

In any case - Unless/until the Ministerial Instructions change with a program update, however, I would expect IRCC to continue handling the loss of job offers the way they have since the inception of the Express Entry system - you lose the points and possibly your ITA.

So, if you lose your job offer, do your best to get a new one as quickly as possible -

It is contradicting and even in the ministerial instructions it doesn’t say in which phase of the PR process the 50 points is deducted before ITA or after AOR . Jes any idea on this which phase are they referring to ?

 

[jes_ON]

It is contradicting and even in the ministerial instructions it doesn’t say in which phase of the PR process the 50 points is deducted before ITA or after AOR . Jes any idea on this which phase are they referring to ?

As currently interpreted by IRCC, ALL phases.

Pre-dating express entry - an offer of arranged employment had to be valid until the day you actually landed as a permanent resident.