Not meet residency obligation, should I renew PR card?

[scylla]

Thanks how does one claim to be a PR once the card expires?

That is where things can get tricky. For working, you just need a valid SIN. If you are looking to attend school, some schools ask for proof of PR status and won't accept an expired card. It really depends on the school.

 

[canuck78]

In my opinion wait until you established yourselves like Taxes, Child Care, House, Jobs, Medical card etc. After an year apply for PR Renewal and everything will be fine.

That is a huge risk. There is no guarantee that you will receive a new card based on H&C after only one year and processing times tend to be much longer.

 

[furrukhrao]

That is a huge risk. There is no guarantee that you will receive a new card based on H&C after only one year and processing times tend to be much longer.

Yes complete 750 days is the safest route.

 

[canuck78]

Study programs are provincial if you got a DL you are fine. you may use your COPR in case to prove you as a PR I have a friend who came back to Canada after 4 years of his Initial Landing and got his PR renewed after a Month but for the safe side I suggest establish yourself like Job, Child Care, Home, Medical Card and pay Tax later apply for the renewal.

Once your PR card expire you are still a PR the only thing is upon entry you might be questioned or denied entry (which is extremely rare). However the obligation is to stay for at least 2 years (I believe within 5 years period).

Many schools require a valid PR card to attend as a domestic student. Driver’s license is not accepted as a form of IS to prove that you are a PR since anyone can get a driver’s license. Your friend may have gotten lucky but there are other examples on this forum where a valid PR card was required to attend post-secondary education as a domestic student.

You can’t be denied entry as a PR. The story if your friend renewing his PE card after a month 4 years after his initial landing makes no sense. He would have a valid PR card. Why would he risk renewing his PR card when not meeting his RO when he already had a valid PR card.

 

[canuck78]

Yes complete 750 days is the safest route.

Being compliant with your RO is the only way to guarantee that you can keep your PR status. Saying that someone will be fine if they renew after 1 year is not sound advice. There is no guarantee that they will be fine.

 

[furrukhrao]

Being compliant with your RO is the only way to guarantee that you can keep your PR status. Saying that someone will be fine if they renew after 1 year is not sound advice. There is no guarantee that they will be fine.

Agreed but I never seen anyone who is in Canada getting refused or removed on the basis of days spent Inside. I have seen people who left Canada and never returned like for 10 years tried to get PRTD and got refusal after a court hearing and wait for 2 years.

 

[meghashyam75]

Study programs are provincial if you got a DL you are fine. you may use your COPR in case to prove you as a PR I have a friend who came back to Canada after 4 years of his Initial Landing and got his PR renewed after a Month but for the safe side I suggest establish yourself like Job, Child Care, Home, Medical Card and pay Tax later apply for the renewal.

Once your PR card expire you are still a PR the only thing is upon entry you might be questioned or denied entry (which is extremely rare). However the obligation is to stay for at least 2 years (I believe within 5 years period).

Makes sense. Thank you

 

[Besram]

Agreed but I never seen anyone who is in Canada getting refused or removed on the basis of days spent Inside. I have seen people who left Canada and never returned like for 10 years tried to get PRTD and got refusal after a court hearing and wait for 2 years.

Absolutely does happen - a quick search on CanLII will show that there are people who lost their PR after applying for a PR card while not in compliance.

 

[furrukhrao]

Absolutely does happen - a quick search on CanLII will show that there are people who lost their PR after applying for a PR card while not in compliance.

Sure I will check.

 

[furrukhrao]

Absolutely does happen - a quick search on CanLII will show that there are people who lost their PR after applying for a PR card while not in compliance.

Can you provide one example. What I found is the problem at entry however if you live outside Canada and come even after your PR card expires you are still a PR what you need to do is to come back into complaince which is living for two years within 5 years.

inadmissibility for Non-Compliance with Canadian Immigration Laws and Regulations. As a foreign national or a permanent resident, you can be deemed inadmissible to Canada for several reasons. Non-compliance with the Immigration and Refugee Act (IRPA) is the most common reason for a removal order being issued.

 

[furrukhrao]

Losing your permanent resident status
You don’t lose your permanent resident status when your PR card expires. You can only lose your status if you go through an official process.
You can lose your permanent resident status if:

• an adjudicator determines you are no longer a permanent resident after an inquiry or PRTD appeal;
• you voluntarily renounce your permanent resident status;
• a removal order is made against you and comes into force; or
• you become a Canadian citizen.

Even if you don't meet the residency obligation, you are still a PR until an official decision is made on your status.

 

[dpenabill]

Agreed but I never seen anyone who is in Canada getting refused or removed on the basis of days spent Inside. I have seen people who left Canada and never returned like for 10 years tried to get PRTD and got refusal after a court hearing and wait for 2 years.

Absolutely does happen - a quick search on CanLII will show that there are people who lost their PR after applying for a PR card while not in compliance.

Short answer: @Besram is correct that officially published decisions, which can be researched at the CanLII website here: https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/ , confirm cases in which PRs living in Canada triggered RO enforcement by making a PR card application; common scenario is the PR was waived into Canada (no inadmissibility proceedings attendant PoE examination, or as many phrase it here, "not reported") despite being in breach of the RO, and then rather than waiting to apply only after staying long enough to get into RO compliance (many will need to wait two years), they soon make the PR card application triggering inadmissibility proceedings.

Can you provide one example. What I found is the problem at entry however if you live outside Canada and come even after your PR card expires you are still a PR what you need to do is to come back into complaince which is living for two years within 5 years.

inadmissibility for Non-Compliance with Canadian Immigration Laws and Regulations. As a foreign national or a permanent resident, you can be deemed inadmissible to Canada for several reasons. Non-compliance with the Immigration and Refugee Act (IRPA) is the most common reason for a removal order being issued.

I cite and link numerous examples of Removal Orders triggered by a PR card application here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/h-c-reasons.678182/page-2#post-8485647

Some examples of cases where inadmissibility proceedings were triggered by PR card application, resulting in Removal Order and loss of PR:

Hajar v Canada, 2019 CanLII 129235, http://canlii.ca/t/j5361​

Wysozki v Canada, 2019 CanLII 106167, http://canlii.ca/t/j39hc​

Yedahalli v Canada, 2012 CanLII 101064 http://canlii.ca/t/gh09t​

Some examples of Removal Order triggered by PR card application, determined to be valid in law, but IAD allowed H&C relief:

Gamarachchi v Canada, 2019 CanLII 37401, http://canlii.ca/t/j01sx​

Chatterjee v Canada, 2019 CanLII 127475, http://canlii.ca/t/j4r1l​

Rastgou v Canada, 2018 CanLII 129864, http://canlii.ca/t/hx738​

It is typical in many of these cases for the PRs to travel outside Canada after making the PR card application, tending to have a negative impact. However, how that affects the outcome, in contrast to the impact of staying in Canada after applying, can get complicated because days in Canada AFTER making a PR card application continue to count up to the date IRCC conducts a formal RO compliance examination. So those who stay, or even stay for most of the days after applying, get credit for those days and if they've stayed enough that could mean they are in RO compliance by the time of an enforcement interview, or even if still short they will get the benefit of the additional time in Canada in assessing H&C considerations . . .

. . . for the latter, in particular, see Metallo v. Canada, 2021 FC 575, https://canlii.ca/t/jgdc5 or https://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/498581/index.do . . . which, by the way, addresses the exception I referenced in the post where I listed and discussed many of these cases. In particular, I stated:

Indeed, in researching this extensively (as illustrated in part by the list of decisions above) I have so far found only ONE case in which it appears that an IRCC ID official might have issued a 44(1) Report and explicitly did not give credit for days in Canada after making the PR card application and prior to the interview. This is Metallo v Canada (Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness), 2019 CanLII 129108 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/j52xd

That IAD decision was successfully brought for judicial review before the Federal Court, which again is here: Metallo v. Canada, 2021 FC 575, https://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/498581/index.do and a significant part of Justice McHaffie's decision more fully and better articulates what I clumsily tried to explain back in 2020, that days in Canada AFTER making a PR card application count toward meeting the RO. I further addressed this in-depth, at-length in the topic titled "RO Compliance & Date of PRC application" here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/ro-compliance-date-of-prc-application.738265/

Even if you don't meet the residency obligation, you are still a PR until an official decision is made on your status.

But for the PR who is not in RO compliance (thus meeting the definition of inadmissible), once inadmissibility proceedings have been initiated, which again can happen in response to making a PR card application, days in Canada after that do NOT count toward meeting the RO. Remaining a PR pending the outcome of the proceedings and an appeal does not offer much comfort unless the PR actually succeeds in making a H&C case that persuades officials to allow the PR to keep status.

Main thing about what you say is that if the PR has managed to return to Canada without triggering inadmissibility proceedings at the PoE (without, as most say, "being reported," and, it is important to remember, without making misrepresentations along the way), their PR status is good . . . and if they stay long enough to get into RO compliance without triggering a RO compliance examination (so NOT making any PR card or sponsorship application), they will be OK.

SUMMARY:

We see many credible anecdotal reports about PRs successfully returning to Canada without encountering inadmissibility proceedings at the border despite being in breach of the RO. This is further documented in IAD and FC decisions.

Even though they have valid PR status and are living in Canada, they should AVOID making a PR card or sponsorship application UNTIL they have stayed long enough to meet the RO.

 

[ashfaq9402]

Short answer: @Besram is correct that officially published decisions, which can be researched at the CanLII website here: https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/ , confirm cases in which PRs living in Canada triggered RO enforcement by making a PR card application; common scenario is the PR was waived into Canada (no inadmissibility proceedings attendant PoE examination, or as many phrase it here, "not reported") despite being in breach of the RO, and then rather than waiting to apply only after staying long enough to get into RO compliance (many will need to wait two years), they soon make the PR card application triggering inadmissibility proceedings.



I cite and link numerous examples of Removal Orders triggered by a PR card application here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/h-c-reasons.678182/page-2#post-8485647

Some examples of cases where inadmissibility proceedings were triggered by PR card application, resulting in Removal Order and loss of PR:

Hajar v Canada, 2019 CanLII 129235, http://canlii.ca/t/j5361​

Wysozki v Canada, 2019 CanLII 106167, http://canlii.ca/t/j39hc​

Yedahalli v Canada, 2012 CanLII 101064 http://canlii.ca/t/gh09t​

Some examples of Removal Order triggered by PR card application, determined to be valid in law, but IAD allowed H&C relief:

Gamarachchi v Canada, 2019 CanLII 37401, http://canlii.ca/t/j01sx​

Chatterjee v Canada, 2019 CanLII 127475, http://canlii.ca/t/j4r1l​

Rastgou v Canada, 2018 CanLII 129864, http://canlii.ca/t/hx738​

It is typical in many of these cases for the PRs to travel outside Canada after making the PR card application, tending to have a negative impact. However, how that affects the outcome, in contrast to the impact of staying in Canada after applying, can get complicated because days in Canada AFTER making a PR card application continue to count up to the date IRCC conducts a formal RO compliance examination. So those who stay, or even stay for most of the days after applying, get credit for those days and if they've stayed enough that could mean they are in RO compliance by the time of an enforcement interview, or even if still short they will get the benefit of the additional time in Canada in assessing H&C considerations . . .

. . . for the latter, in particular, see Metallo v. Canada, 2021 FC 575, https://canlii.ca/t/jgdc5 or https://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/498581/index.do . . . which, by the way, addresses the exception I referenced in the post where I listed and discussed many of these cases. In particular, I stated:


That IAD decision was successfully brought for judicial review before the Federal Court, which again is here: Metallo v. Canada, 2021 FC 575, https://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/498581/index.do and a significant part of Justice McHaffie's decision more fully and better articulates what I clumsily tried to explain back in 2020, that days in Canada AFTER making a PR card application count toward meeting the RO. I further addressed this in-depth, at-length in the topic titled "RO Compliance & Date of PRC application" here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/ro-compliance-date-of-prc-application.738265/



But for the PR who is not in RO compliance (thus meeting the definition of inadmissible), once inadmissibility proceedings have been initiated, which again can happen in response to making a PR card application, days in Canada after that do NOT count toward meeting the RO. Remaining a PR pending the outcome of the proceedings and an appeal does not offer much comfort unless the PR actually succeeds in making a H&C case that persuades officials to allow the PR to keep status.

Main thing about what you say is that if the PR has managed to return to Canada without triggering inadmissibility proceedings at the PoE (without, as most say, "being reported," and, it is important to remember, without making misrepresentations along the way), their PR status is good . . . and if they stay long enough to get into RO compliance without triggering a RO compliance examination (so NOT making any PR card or sponsorship application), they will be OK.

SUMMARY:

We see many credible anecdotal reports about PRs successfully returning to Canada without encountering inadmissibility proceedings at the border despite being in breach of the RO. This is further documented in IAD and FC decisions.

Even though they have valid PR status and are living in Canada, they should AVOID making a PR card or sponsorship application UNTIL they have stayed long enough to meet the RO.

As this forum is very useful and helpful for those who are not having good enough information on different scenarios. Some of senior members have given their more expert opinion on different case. Please i would like to ask about my case and would be thankful to you for your expert inputs. I was meeting RO by 30-Jun-2020 (5 years completion) I travelled outside on 26-Sep-2019 with intention to come back before 30-Jun-2020 but unfortunately could not travel to Canada due to COVID-19. Now I have applied for USA visit visa to enter Canada through USA border. My question is which border crossing is more lenient and soft for entry (My first residency in Ontario)
Should I enter into Canada through Ontario or it will be more suitable to enter through BC border crossing points.

Thanks a lot

 

[canuck78]

As this forum is very useful and helpful for those who are not having good enough information on different scenarios. Some of senior members have given their more expert opinion on different case. Please i would like to ask about my case and would be thankful to you for your expert inputs. I was meeting RO by 30-Jun-2020 (5 years completion) I travelled outside on 26-Sep-2019 with intention to come back before 30-Jun-2020 but unfortunately could not travel to Canada due to COVID-19. Now I have applied for USA visit visa to enter Canada through USA border. My question is which border crossing is more lenient and soft for entry (My first residency in Ontario)
Should I enter into Canada through Ontario or it will be more suitable to enter through BC border crossing points.

Thanks a lot

There is no difference between the borders. Whether you get reported is mostly dependent on luck. Not having valid PR card, the amount of days you’ve spent in Canada in the past 5 years and your level of establishment in Canada over your lifetime also has an impact. How many days have you been in Canada in the past 5 years? Do you already have an appointment with the US embassy? Current waitlists for appointments at US embassies seem to be very long in many countries. When have you lived in Canada as PR and had you been working or studying in Canada before landing as a PR? How old are you? Did you get married during your time outside Canada? If so, are you aware you’ll need to wait until you are compliant with your RO before your sponsor a spouse or child.

 

[ashfaq9402]

Really appreciate your (@canuck78) quick response, Actually first we landed in May-2015 and 30-Jun-2020 was expiry of PR Card. In fact in first 3 years I was in Canada for almost 142days and then my wife & two Kids (as PR) were with me for 840 days, so the RO was meeting but if I compare from now last five years, only 46 days we lived together. They are physically in Canada and are going to get citizenship in next one or two months time. I have appointment in US Embassy in 2nd week of May-2023, hopefully to get the Visitor Visa and have intention to settle permanently. In Case not reported on border, then can renew the PR after physically living there for 2 years. what could be the possibility if CBSA issue report, can be appealed or not and what are the chances of success.