Withholding documents

[Eddie49]

My grandson is a Canadian AA his father was born here but he won't give his birth certicate so he can get his proof of Citizenship card. I already spoke with Citizenship Canada and this all we need but he won't do it. He does not live with my daughter and has no relationship with her but he added his name on the grandsons birth certificate Both my daughter and grandson were born out of Canada.Grandson is 2 1/2 yes.

 

[Buletruck]

I'm assuming you want to know if there is a means to get him to provide his birth certificate? The only way would likely require a court order or a pending legal action against him (paternity suit) in Canada. Otherwise, if he doesn't want to supply it to you, he doesn't have to.

 

[Rob_TO]

Right, his birth certificate is his own personal property and he doesn't need to provide it to anyone if he doesn't want to.

Your daughter will need to try and find some way to convince him to provide it, to help get proof of his son's Canadian citizenship. Does he share custody of the child? Perhaps he doesn't want the child moving to Canada as a citizen? Not sure why else he would be so against his kid having claim to citizenship, other than just trying to be difficult or holding a grudge against your daughter.

Did you ask Citizenship Canada if there is any other info you can provide based on his info contained in the child's birth certificate, that they could use to verify the father's Canadian birth?

Worst case scenario I guess is when he passes away the birth certificate will become part of his estate and then you can probably get access to it.

 

[hawk39]

Does the daughter have full custody of the grandson? I believe that if the OP was Canadian when his daughter was born, that would make her Canadian by descent. She could apply for her own citizenship certificate, then she could move to Canada with her child (i.e. the grandson) and file for permanent residency then citizenship for him without having to deal with the father.

 

[Buletruck]

If the OP's daughter was a Canadian citizen, they wouldn't need to apply for permanent residency.....they would already be Canadian.

 

[hawk39]

If the OP's daughter was a Canadian citizen, they wouldn't need to apply for permanent residency.....they would already be Canadian.

I believe the son (OP's grandson) would not be Canadian because, without the father's birth certificate, he would be considered the second generation born abroad and ineligible for citizenship by descent. But if his mother were to move to Canada with him (assuming she has full custody), she could sponsor him for PR then citizenship because he doesn't need to fulfill the residency requirement.

 

[Eddie49]

Citizenship Canada said if the father is Canadian born the child is Canadian and if we applied for PROGRAM they wouldn't give it as he is Canadian.

 

[hawk39]

Citizenship Canada said if the father is Canadian born the child is Canadian and if we applied for PROGRAM they wouldn't give it as he is Canadian.

Yes, the child's father is Canadian so the child should be considered Canadian by descent; however without the father's birth certificate (which you say he refuses to give), you can not prove to IRCC that the child is the Canadian father's son, so IRCC will not consider the child to be Canadian.

1. Were you Canadian when your daughter was born? If you were, then your daughter is Canadian by descent. She can apply for her own citizenship certificate through you.
2. Does your daughter have full custody over the child? If she does, then the father can not stop your daughter from taking the child with her to Canada.

If 1 and 2 are true, then my suggestion above might work so that the child's father's birth certificate is not required: once your daughter has gotten her citizenship certificate, she can move with the child to Canada and then sponsor him for PR (a prerequisite for citizenship) and then apply for his citizenship immediately (as children do not have to fulfill the residency requirement for citizenship). Now your grandson will gain his citizenship though your daughter instead of the unwilling father.

 

[Rob_TO]

If 1 and 2 are true, then my suggestion above might work so that the child's father's birth certificate is not required: once your daughter has gotten her citizenship certificate, she can move with the child to Canada and then sponsor him for PR (a prerequisite for citizenship) and then apply for his citizenship immediately (as children do not have to fulfill the residency requirement for citizenship). Now your grandson will gain his citizenship though your daughter instead of the unwilling father.

I can potentially see them caught in a bureaucratic catch-22 here. As part of the child's PR app, they would need to disclose the father's date of birth and place of birth. So once the visa officer sees father was born in Canada and child should be a citizen, they may deem the child ineligible to be sponsored for PR and demand they apply directly for citizenship instead. Which of course they can't do without the father's willingness to provide birth certificate.

See here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5525ETOC.asp
Important information about children born to Canadian citizens

• If you’re a Canadian citizen who is sponsoring a spouse or partner, and you have a child together, your child may be a Canadian citizen.
• A Canadian citizen is not eligible to be sponsored.
• If you already have proof of Canadian citizenship for your child, you are encouraged to include a copy of this proof (citizenship certificate or copy of Canadian passport), to help us confirm that your child does not require immigrant processing.
• If you don’t have proof of Canadian citizenship for your child, you need to apply for a proof of citizenship to confirm whether your child is a Canadian citizen.
• If it is confirmed that your child is a Canadian citizen, you’ll be able to apply for your child’s Canadian passport.
• If your child is found not to be a Canadian citizen, you’ll need to add them as a dependent on the sponsorship undertaking signed for your spouse or partner.

This is a very unique situation, so honestly I have no idea what would actually happen.

 

[hawk39]

I can potentially see them caught in a bureaucratic catch-22 here. As part of the child's PR app, they would need to disclose the father's date of birth and place of birth. So once the visa officer sees father was born in Canada and child should be a citizen, they may deem the child ineligible to be sponsored for PR and demand they apply directly for citizenship instead. Which of course they can't do without the father's willingness to provide birth certificate.

You're right Rob_TO. But perhaps the child's birth certificate also lists his parents' places of birth? I know mine does, as I too just recently applied for a citizenship certificate. If IRCC says that the child must apply for his citizenship certificate, under the section for the father's certificate number, they can fill in something like "Unknown, no contact" and wait for IRCC to contact them so they can explain their situation.

 

[Rob_TO]

You're right Rob_TO. But perhaps the child's birth certificate also lists his parents' places of birth? I know mine does, as I too just recently applied for a citizenship certificate. If IRCC says that the child must apply for his citizenship certificate, under the section for the father's certificate number, they can fill in something like "Unknown, no contact" and wait for IRCC to contact them so they can explain their situation.

Yes, my kid's recent Ontario birth certificate also shows mine and my wife's basic info like DOB and birthplace. However I'm not sure if this can be used as proof for citizenship, since I don't think the parents info is actually checked/verified, it's simply entered in by the parents. So I don't think it really "proves" that the father was born in Canada.

Again though I'm not really sure on this, so they would need to ask the Citizenship people if they can use the father's info on daughter's birth certificate as proof, and perhaps they can do some internal investigation to confirm his birth place is correct.