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What will happen if my physical presence is insufficient by one day?

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powerssdd

Hero Member
Aug 4, 2019
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I am regretting that I may have submitted my citizenship application in haste that my physical presence could be short by one day to the 1095 days requirement.

Now I have paid the fee, and I wonder what will happen if it is indeed the case.

Will I be given a chance to retify it?

Will the application be rejected directly? Will I get a refund?

What if I fill a webform now to withdraw the application? In this case, will I get a full refund?

I submitted it just yesterday, so I haven't received the AOR yet.

I saw some ppl's applications were returned, and they got to resubmit it.
How does this "return" work? Is the "resubmit" free? Or do I have to pay another $530?

Thanks for any help!
 
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I am regretting that I may have submitted my citizenship application in haste that my physical presence could be short by one day to the 1095 days requirement.

Now I have paid the fee, and I wonder what will happen if it is indeed the case.

Will I be given a chance to retify it?

Will the application be rejected directly? Will I get a refund?

What if I fill a webform now to withdraw the application? In this case, will I a full refund?

I submitted it just yesterday, so I haven't received the AOR yet.

I saw some ppl's applications were returned, and they got to resubmit it.
How does this "return" work? Is the "resubmit" fee? Or do I have to pay another $530?

Thanks for any help!
If you withdraw your application before processing begins, you will receive a full refund. However, once processing starts, you will only get $100 back. Your application will be rejected if you fall short of the required 1,095 days. It's best to apply with a buffer, as applications submitted with exactly 1,095 days often undergo extensive scrutiny, leading to delays of several months that could otherwise be avoided.
 
If you withdraw your application before processing begins, you will receive a full refund. However, once processing starts, you will only get $100 back. Your application will be rejected if you fall short of the required 1,095 days. It's best to apply with a buffer, as applications submitted with exactly 1,095 days often undergo extensive scrutiny, leading to delays of several months that could otherwise be avoided.

The following post says his application was "returned" for the same reason, and he had to resubmit it in 60 days.
It seems that "returned" is different from "rejected", is that correct?
"Returned" happens before AOR, while "rejected" happens after AOR.

 
The following post says his application was "returned" for the same reason, and he had to resubmit it in 60 days.
It seems that "returned" is different from "rejected", is that correct?
"Returned" happens before AOR, while "rejected" happens after AOR.

If they understand your physical presence is lower then 1095 before AOR it will get returned. But if processing moves ahead and during LPP stage where language, physical presence and Prohibition is validated if they come to know about it, application will be rejected/citizenship denied.
 
If they understand your physical presence is lower then 1095 before AOR it will get returned. But if processing moves ahead and during LPP stage where language, physical presence and Prohibition is validated if they come to know about it, application will be rejected/citizenship denied.

May I know in what situation will they NOT understand it before AOR?

My situation is that I travelled aboard for 3 or 4 days. I thought it was 3 days when filling the application, but now I realized it could be 4 days.
That is it.

Do you think they will understand it before AOR or not?
 
May I know in what situation will they NOT understand it before AOR?

My situation is that I travelled aboard for 3 or 4 days. I thought it was 3 days when filling the application, but now I realized it could be 4 days.
That is it.

Do you think they will understand it before AOR or not?
That would happen mostly with paper application. But in your case they need to pull travel dates from CBSA and validate. Should happen during the latest stages of the application processing.
 
May I know in what situation will they NOT understand it before AOR?

My situation is that I travelled aboard for 3 or 4 days. I thought it was 3 days when filling the application, but now I realized it could be 4 days.
That is it.

Do you think they will understand it before AOR or not?

I think you need to understand first whether it was three days or four days and whether that means you had enough days or not. That's your responsibility.

My personal opinion is that if you determine you had less than the minimum - withdraw the app and apply again with an explanation about your previous mistake.

IRCC can take quite a while to determine physical presence, i.e. at the very last stage. If so, you've wasted a long time to get it refused. They do not have the discretion to let it proceed to finalization if they determine you've not had enough days (and I think even if they have any doubt) - as of the date of the application you signed, i.e. they cannot include any days after.

Note, any applications that are withdrawn and re-applied get extra scrutiny (even if you explain why you did so). That doesn't mean it will automatically take an extra-long period of time, but some extra time.
 
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May I know in what situation will they NOT understand it before AOR?

My situation is that I travelled aboard for 3 or 4 days. I thought it was 3 days when filling the application, but now I realized it could be 4 days.
That is it.

Do you think they will understand it before AOR or not?

In most situations applications move forward and are refused at later stages once IRCC has requested more information / post interview.

You need to determine if you have enough days or not now. If you don't have enough days, withdraw the application.
 
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That would happen mostly with paper application. But in your case they need to pull travel dates from CBSA and validate. Should happen during the latest stages of the application processing.

The reddit post I posted above is not like that: the application was submitted via the online portal, and it was still returned before the AOR.
But it could be an outlier. Thanks for you answer.

Another question: since IRCC says "you cannot be refunded after we have started processing your application", what is the definition of "have started"?
Is it the moment I signed and submitted my application?
Or, is it the moment I receive my AOR?
 
The reddit post I posted above is not like that: the application was submitted via the online portal, and it was still returned before the AOR.
But it could be an outlier. Thanks for you answer.

Another question: since IRCC says "you cannot be refunded after we have started processing your application", what is the definition of "have started"?
Is it the moment I signed and submitted my application?
Or, is it the moment I receive my AOR?
If you read the whole thread issue was with the portal not with the applicant having less no of physical presence days. In your case you should withdraw and resubmit again without waiting for IRCC confirmation which make come late in the processing cycle. Started processing would be once officer is assigned which would happen quickly after AOR.
 
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If you read the whole thread issue was with the portal not with the applicant having less no of physical presence days. In your case you should withdraw and resubmit again without waiting for IRCC confirmation which make come late in the processing cycle. Started processing would be once officer is assigned which would happen quickly after AOR.

Understood. Thanks so much for your help!
 
The following post says his application was "returned" for the same reason, and he had to resubmit it in 60 days.
It seems that "returned" is different from "rejected", is that correct?
"Returned" happens before AOR, while "rejected" happens after AOR.

Applications are first screened for completeness. If the application does not meet the criteria for making a complete application, it is "returned" and the applicant gets an opportunity to resubmit that application (after it is properly completed) or a new application (the latter can be based on a different date, so a different physical presence calculation).

Applications are not "rejected" by IRCC if insufficient physical presence is the only grounds for denying the application. These applications are referred to a Citizenship Judge. That process tends to take over a year if not two years. As others have noted, IRCC cannot grant citizenship based on an application made when the applicant did not meet the presence requirement. That includes applications just one day short.

There are situations in which it appears on the face of the application that the physical presence requirement is not met, which will be noted during the completeness screening resulting in the application being returned as incomplete because of insufficient physical presence. This most often arises when the applicant is relying on pre-PR credit for a period of time their GCMS records do not verify they had temporary resident status (complicated subject addressed at length elsewhere, but mostly affects some relying on time here as a visitor or relying on implied status). So what IRCC sees on the very face of the application is a period of time that does not get presence credit, and if after subtracting those days from the calculation that leaves the applicant short, IRCC will return the application as incomplete for insufficient presence . . . and in that scenario the applicant can wait until they do meet the presence requirement to submit a new application.

In contrast, if during the completeness screening GCMS verifies the applicant's status, and the information the applicant has entered into the presence calculation shows the presence requirement has been met, that will pass the completeness screening and result in AOR and processing (much as @forw.jane has described). Then, as others have also described, it will be much later in the process that IRCC assesses physical presence, including verifying travel history, including comparing the applicant's dates of entry and exit with other information, especially the CBSA travel history for the applicant.

If IRCC has some concern about the accuracy of the applicant's travel history, that will typically be addressed in an interview. In particular, the usual procedure is to interview the applicant about physical presence if IRCC discerns there is a discrepancy between the CBSA history of entries and exits (or other information) and what the applicant has reported in the physical presence calculation, and if the processing agent (or sometimes it is the IRCC officer responsible for the application) identifies reason to question whether the applicant actually met the presence requirement they will inform the applicant and give the applicant an opportunity to withdraw (or make the case they did meet the presence requirement). If just one day short, there is no real choice but to withdraw. If, however, the applicant does not withdraw, IRCC does not just "reject" or deny the application, but rather it must refer it to a Citizenship Judge . . . and then maybe it takes another year or more to get a decision from the CJ, and if the application was made one day short the CJ must deny the application.

Note: for most reasons that would justify denying the application (such as misrepresentation or a prohibition, or failing the knowledge of Canada test), an IRCC officer can and will make that decision . . . if for example the applicant fails to adequately demonstrate ability in an official language during an interview, the officer can and generally will deny the application. But unless the applicant withdraws, if IRCC does not verify the applicant meets the physical presence requirement the case is to be referred to a CJ for an evidentiary hearing.
 
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