US green card denied, effect on Canada spouse sponsorship?

[DesperateToBeTogether]

Hello,

I am a Canadian citizen married to a US citizen for the past two years. Entered on a K1, waited two years to file for a green card, and this was deemed as a dumb enough decision to raise red flags and be denied a green card based on a non-bona fide relationship. The main issue brought up during the interview was the lack of joint accounts, leases, etc. during this time. You need an SSN for most of that and you don't get one until your green card, but USCIS will USCIS. I've seen the same evidence suggested for a Canadian spousal sponsorship, so I'm concerned it will be a problem here as well.

I'm just wondering if anybody has experience with being denied permanent status for their spouse in another country and then trying to bring their spouse to Canada. Is it a significant hurdle to overcome? One would imagine that being denied in one country and pursuing being together in another is a pretty good sign of a bona fide marriage, but I'm not sure if the Canadian government would agree. I'm also concerned that a quick application for a spousal sponsorship after being denied elsewhere (I intend to file immediately after arriving back in Canada as I don't want to be away from my wife) would negatively impact things as it makes Canada look like a quick backup plan rather than carefully planned intent to continue our lives together here.

I would obviously have to mention it as part of our brief relationship timeline, so I'm worried it'll get denied and then neither of us can live in the other's countries and be we will be seperated long term if not forever.

Am I overworrying?

 

[scylla]

Hello,

I am a Canadian citizen married to a US citizen for the past two years. Entered on a K1, waited two years to file for a green card, and this was deemed as a dumb enough decision to raise red flags and be denied a green card based on a non-bona fide relationship. The main issue brought up during the interview was the lack of joint accounts, leases, etc. during this time. You need an SSN for most of that and you don't get one until your green card, but USCIS will USCIS. I've seen the same evidence suggested for a Canadian spousal sponsorship, so I'm concerned it will be a problem here as well.

I'm just wondering if anybody has experience with being denied permanent status for their spouse in another country and then trying to bring their spouse to Canada. Is it a significant hurdle to overcome? One would imagine that being denied in one country and pursuing being together in another is a pretty good sign of a bona fide marriage, but I'm not sure if the Canadian government would agree. I'm also concerned that a quick application for a spousal sponsorship after being denied elsewhere (I intend to file immediately after arriving back in Canada as I don't want to be away from my wife) would negatively impact things as it makes Canada look like a quick backup plan rather than carefully planned intent to continue our lives together here.

I would obviously have to mention it as part of our brief relationship timeline, so I'm worried it'll get denied and then neither of us can live in the other's countries and be we will be seperated long term if not forever.

Am I overworrying?

It's a bit of a unique situation.

As part of the Canadian spousal sponsorship application, you will need to prove you are in a genuine relationship. Presumably you have been living together for the last two years and have evidence to prove this. Provided you have this, you shouldn't have issues being approved. If you are short on hard evidence, I would dig deep and see what you can obtain within an SSN. It's sometimes surprising what you can in fact do quite easily without an SSN. You can certainly be put on a joint bank acocunt without one. I have a joint bank account and credit card with my American husband in the US and I have no SSN.

You will need to declare the US refusal in the Canadian sponsorship application. It's quite unusual to wait two years after arriving on a K-1 before filing for a PR card. You'll need to explain what was refused and why. You may want to provide rationale for why you waited 2 years to apply for the green card.

Good luck.

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

It's a bit of a unique situation.

Yeah, I figured. I assume Canadians being denied Green Cards is pretty unique by itself.

As part of the Canadian spousal sponsorship application, you will need to prove you are in a genuine relationship. Presumably you have been living together for the last two years and have evidence to prove this. Provided you have this, you shouldn't have issues being approved. If you are short on hard evidence, I would dig deep and see what you can obtain within an SSN. It's sometimes surprising what you can in fact do quite easily without an SSN. You can certainly be put on a joint bank acocunt without one. I have a joint bank account and credit card with my American husband in the US and I have no SSN.

We have been living together, but my wife had a unique living situation in that she was provided lodging as part of her work so there wasn't any lease or rental agreement to be attached to and still isn't. We included a letter from her landlord/employer stating as such and that he could vouch that I lived there for as long as I was living there with her as the property was adjacent to his own residence so we were neighbours.

We had a joint bank account and a joint credit card and provided evidence of the two, but they were only opened 6 months prior to the interview and she still had her direct deposit payments sent to her non-joint account which probably didn't help things. We didn't have a complete lack of financial co-mingling and my name was on vet bills, tax filing bills, grocery bills, etc. , but we didn't have what we did have from the start and lacked things like a joint auto loan, health insurance, etc. After two years of being married in the US you qualify for a 10-year green card with harsher expectations of financial co-mingling rather than a 2-year conditional one where the expectations are more relaxed, which some people on US visa forums said might have factored into it.

We had wills and power of attorneys as well, along with affidavits from her parents who lived nearby that our relationship was genuine and that we lived together. I thought we had a lot of evidence, but I guess not and I'm just worried it won't be sufficient for a spousal sponsorship with the extra red flag of being denied on these grounds in the US. Do you think we should be okay with what we have plus the additional month or two on the joint bank account/credit card (9 months)? Should I not immediately file and let more months accumulate on that? Can you think of anything else that we could add at this point? I could add her to my Canadian bank account, but I'm not sure how much that would matter at this point.

As for rationale of why we waited two years, she was on the bubble of the 125% poverty limit and was below it the previous two years (most recent tax return) for the year we married. Since I had a remote job in Canada and we didn't need to get me a work permit to make ends meat, we thought waiting to show that she could have 3 years of tax returns above the threshold would help our case. Once we had the 3 tax returns showing that we sent in the AOS. In hindsight it's stupid, but that was the logic.

I'm just really looking for some positive support and to be told that the spouse sponsor in Canada is easier than the US. I don't know if it is as we weren't expecting this to happen so I haven't really spent the time looking into it. What is the appeal process like for an outland spousal sponsor denial? Can we file again if it's rejected? IE. Denied, then we wait a year and continue communication, she visits, I send money, etc. and then file again with additional evidence? Is that possible?

 

[scylla]

As for rationale of why we waited two years, she was on the bubble of the 125% poverty limit and was below it the previous two years (most recent tax return) for the year we married. Since I had a remote job in Canada and we didn't need to get me a work permit to make ends meat, we thought waiting to show that she could have 3 years of tax returns above the threshold would help our case. Once we had the 3 tax returns showing that we sent in the AOS. In hindsight it's stupid, but that was the logic.

I was wondering if the 125% threshold might be the reason but didn't want to assume. Yeah - I think that may have been the straw that broke the camel's back unfortunately for your US application.

Your application looks like it should be fine from a Canadian perspective.

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

Your application looks like it should be fine from a Canadian perspective.

That's good to hear. I know it's not official or anything, but anything positive really means a lot to me right now so thank you for spending the time reading this.

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

I have a question about whether this affects our proof of marriage. We were married in the US, would a denial due to insufficient evidence of a bonafide marriage affect Canadian immigration's views on the marriage record we provide? The NOID from the US we got said it was due to insufficient evidence rather than any kind of fraud allegation.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I have a question about whether this affects our proof of marriage. We were married in the US, would a denial due to insufficient evidence of a bonafide marriage affect Canadian immigration's views on the marriage record we provide? The NOID from the US we got said it was due to insufficient evidence rather than any kind of fraud allegation.

As far as I recall, nowhere in the spousal sponsorship app is the sponsor required to declare immigration/visa refusals; that is an applicant requirement. Your spouse is American, so she wasn't refused in a US immigration application and can answer No to that (assuming no other refusals in any other countries).

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

As far as I recall, nowhere in the spousal sponsorship app is the sponsor required to declare immigration/visa refusals; that is an applicant requirement. Your spouse is American, so she wasn't refused in a US immigration application and can answer No to that (assuming no other refusals in any other countries).

That's good to know, but I meant more that would Canada deem a marriage to not exist if a foreign country where the marriage took place considers the marriage not bonafide? For our case where it's a lack of evidence I would assume no as the foreign country allows for appeals and reapplying. Had we been accused of fraud, things would be different I imagine.

More to your point, I would obviously have to mention it during the letter that explains the history of the relationship. Right? Even if I didn't technically have to, that seems like the kind of thing where if they found out would be a huge red flag that looked like I was trying to hide something.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

That's good to know, but I meant more that would Canada deem a marriage to not exist if a foreign country where the marriage took place considers the marriage not bonafide? For our case where it's a lack of evidence I would assume no as the foreign country allows for appeals and reapplying. Had we been accused of fraud, things would be different I imagine.

More to your point, I would obviously have to mention it during the letter that explains the history of the relationship. Right? Even if I didn't technically have to, that seems like the kind of thing where if they found out would be a huge red flag that looked like I was trying to hide something.

IRCC will review the app that you submit to make their own decision.

A relationship letter is not required. If it isn't asked, then you are not hiding anything by not mentioning it.

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

IRCC will review the app that you submit to make their own decision.

A relationship letter is not required. If it isn't asked, then you are not hiding anything by not mentioning it.

So you're saying that if I follow the letter of the application there's no question that would require me to reveal my situation? Am I ever required to mention that I was out of status for the two years we waited to file AOS, or do they just see that we lived together in the US (of which all my Canadian government documents support) and base it on that?

You have me really hopeful that she'll be able to come to Canada. We've been together for almost 7 years with the paper trail to prove it, married for 2 and a half, lived together for those 2 and a half in the US and have the necessary paperwork requested by them. As she is a US citizen I would assume our case would be the kind of thing that would get fast tracked outside of the potential issues we faced attempting to adjust in the US, but if that doesn't matter would you think we look like a good application?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

So you're saying that if I follow the letter of the application there's no question that would require me to reveal my situation? Am I ever required to mention that I was out of status for the two years we waited to file AOS, or do they just see that we lived together in the US (of which all my Canadian government documents support) and base it on that?

You have me really hopeful that she'll be able to come to Canada. We've been together for almost 7 years with the paper trail to prove it, married for 2 and a half, lived together for those 2 and a half in the US and have the necessary paperwork requested by them. As she is a US citizen I would assume our case would be the kind of thing that would get fast tracked outside of the potential issues we faced attempting to adjust in the US, but if that doesn't matter would you think we look like a good application?

Yes, you are required to state your status in any foreign countries you've lived in in the past 5 years (if I recall correctly). However, you being in a country without status is not a reason for refusal.

Honestly, even if you provide a full explanation of the entire situation, with solid proof of a 7 year relationship and 2.5 years living together, I don't see IRCC having any issues.

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

Yes, you are required to state your status in any foreign countries you've lived in in the past 5 years (if I recall correctly). However, you being in a country without status is not a reason for refusal.

Honestly, even if you provide a full explanation of the entire situation, with solid proof of a 7 year relationship and 2.5 years living together, I don't see IRCC having any issues.

Is IRCC generally pretty understanding then? I'm just so beaten down from my American immigration experience that any additional positive news is more than welcome.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Is IRCC generally pretty understanding then? I'm just so beaten down from my American immigration experience that any additional positive news is more than welcome.

It's not about being understanding. It's a matter of meeting the requirements as per the app and the checklist for a genuine relationship. It is a different system than the US.

 

[DesperateToBeTogether]

It's not about being understanding. It's a matter of meeting the requirements as per the app and the checklist for a genuine relationship. It is a different system than the US.

That's good to hear, then. I definitely feel we have the evidence to meet the requirements on the application.

Thank you for your continued assistance and support (I think you were being supportive ).