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To Accept ITA or to Decline based on calculation of work experience

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Lazers2416

Newbie
May 6, 2020
9
5
Hamilton, Ontario
Category........
CEC
NOC Code......
6346
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01-06-2021
Hopefully someone has some insight or has been in a similar situation. Info: Graduated from Canadian college in May 2018, applied for PGWP June 8, 2018, started working full-time June 26, 2018. As of of April 30, 2020 I had a CRS of 434, on May 1, 2020 my CRS was automatically recalculated to include two years of work experience. This now put me at 459 and I received an ITA May 1st. Some of the information I'm seeing in this forum is saying I should decline this ITA because I don't technically have the work experience yet. Others are saying as long as I submit my PR application AFTER I complete two years work experience (so in my case, after June 26) then it's all good and I can keep this ITA.

I would just decline it to play it safe and wait till I get an ITA after June 26, but I have a bad feeling once they start allowing the FSW applications back in the cut-off score is going to go back to the 470 range and my chance at getting PR is over :(
 

horizonj

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Jun 9, 2017
349
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Hopefully someone has some insight or has been in a similar situation. Info: Graduated from Canadian college in May 2018, applied for PGWP June 8, 2018, started working full-time June 26, 2018. As of of April 30, 2020 I had a CRS of 434, on May 1, 2020 my CRS was automatically recalculated to include two years of work experience. This now put me at 459 and I received an ITA May 1st. Some of the information I'm seeing in this forum is saying I should decline this ITA because I don't technically have the work experience yet. Others are saying as long as I submit my PR application AFTER I complete two years work experience (so in my case, after June 26) then it's all good and I can keep this ITA.

I would just decline it to play it safe and wait till I get an ITA after June 26, but I have a bad feeling once they start allowing the FSW applications back in the cut-off score is going to go back to the 470 range and my chance at getting PR is over :(
Why do you need to decline? We have 90 days to submit right? You can submit it after June 26. Same advise I got here. I also got my ITA Apr 9, but my one yr work exp will be completed on May 21st..so i will submit my application after that. That's what I fear too that scores may go up next time, so im keeping my ITA. :)
 

indianstudent96

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May 22, 2017
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Hopefully someone has some insight or has been in a similar situation. Info: Graduated from Canadian college in May 2018, applied for PGWP June 8, 2018, started working full-time June 26, 2018. As of of April 30, 2020 I had a CRS of 434, on May 1, 2020 my CRS was automatically recalculated to include two years of work experience. This now put me at 459 and I received an ITA May 1st. Some of the information I'm seeing in this forum is saying I should decline this ITA because I don't technically have the work experience yet. Others are saying as long as I submit my PR application AFTER I complete two years work experience (so in my case, after June 26) then it's all good and I can keep this ITA.

I would just decline it to play it safe and wait till I get an ITA after June 26, but I have a bad feeling once they start allowing the FSW applications back in the cut-off score is going to go back to the 470 range and my chance at getting PR is over :(
You should only decline your ITA if you did not or you will not meet MEC at the time of the ITA and e-APR. You had more than a year of Canadian work experience when you got your ITA which means you met the MEC.

About your CRS score, the officer will re-calculate your score at the time of e-APR (application), if your score at e-APR is higher than the cut-off, your application won't be refused. In other words, if you submit your application after you have 2 years of work experience, you are perfectly safe. Just make sure to get your reference letter from your current employer after you have 2 years of work experience under your belt. The VO only counts work experience until the date on your reference letter. I wish you the best.
 

Lazers2416

Newbie
May 6, 2020
9
5
Hamilton, Ontario
Category........
CEC
NOC Code......
6346
LANDED..........
01-06-2021
You should only decline your ITA if you did not or you will not meet MEC at the time of the ITA and e-APR. You had more than a year of Canadian work experience when you got your ITA which means you met the MEC.

About your CRS score, the officer will re-calculate your score at the time of e-APR (application), if your score at e-APR is higher than the cut-off, your application won't be refused. In other words, if you submit your application after you have 2 years of work experience, you are perfectly safe. Just make sure to get your reference letter from your current employer after you have 2 years of work experience under your belt. The VO only counts work experience until the date on your reference letter. I wish you the best.
Thanks for your response! Sorry, just to clarify: When you say they recalculate it at the time of e-APR, they will recalculate it to include my two years of work experience (459)? Or they will recalculate it to the score I had without the two years(434)? If they do the latter, then I would definitely be under the cutoff in the round that I was issued the ITA and likely the most recent round of ITA at the time of e-APR.
 

Lazers2416

Newbie
May 6, 2020
9
5
Hamilton, Ontario
Category........
CEC
NOC Code......
6346
LANDED..........
01-06-2021
Why do you need to decline? We have 90 days to submit right? You can submit it after June 26. Same advise I got here. I also got my ITA Apr 9, but my one yr work exp will be completed on May 21st..so i will submit my application after that. That's what I fear too that scores may go up next time, so im keeping my ITA. :)
Yea sounds like we’re in the same boat! I figured since this is really my last chance I should try to make the most informed decision that I can! Good luck to us! :D
 
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indianstudent96

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Thanks for your response! Sorry, just to clarify: When you say they recalculate it at the time of e-APR, they will recalculate it to include my two years of work experience (459)? Or they will recalculate it to the score I had without the two years(434)? If they do the latter, then I would definitely be under the cutoff in the round that I was issued the ITA and likely the most recent round of ITA at the time of e-APR.
When I said they will re-calculate your score at e-APR, I literally meant it. Your qualifications at the time of e-APR. You will even see your points again when you submit your e-APR. Like I said, you will get credit for 2 years if you submit your e-APR after the completion of 2 years of work experience.

So, it's literally up to you now. As per my understanding, you will get 2 years of work experience after June 26th. If you submit before it, the recalculated score will be 434 which will result in refusal. If you submit it after June 26th, you will get credit for the two years and your score at e-APR will be 459 which means your application will not be refused.

Personally, I would not recommend you to waste this ITA or jeopardize your chance of getting PR in Canada. If you are still in doubt, an immigration lawyer (a good one) will be able to help you. She/he will suggest the same.
 

Lazers2416

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May 6, 2020
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When I said they will re-calculate your score at e-APR, I literally meant it. Your qualifications at the time of e-APR. You will even see your points again when you submit your e-APR. Like I said, you will get credit for 2 years if you submit your e-APR after the completion of 2 years of work experience.

So, it's literally up to you now. As per my understanding, you will get 2 years of work experience after June 26th. If you submit before it, the recalculated score will be 434 which will result in refusal. If you submit it after June 26th, you will get credit for the two years and your score at e-APR will be 459 which means your application will not be refused.

Personally, I would not recommend you to waste this ITA or jeopardize your chance of getting PR in Canada. If you are still in doubt, an immigration lawyer (a good one) will be able to help you. She/he will suggest the same.
Okay I see what you’re saying now! That’s really great! I’ll submit my eAPR after June 26th and hopefully it all works out :)
 

indianstudent96

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May 22, 2017
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Okay I see what you’re saying now! That’s really great! I’ll submit my eAPR after June 26th and hopefully it all works out then
To make it stronger, I would include a letter of explanation for this.
 
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newbiealpha

Star Member
Oct 26, 2017
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When I said they will re-calculate your score at e-APR, I literally meant it. Your qualifications at the time of e-APR. You will even see your points again when you submit your e-APR. Like I said, you will get credit for 2 years if you submit your e-APR after the completion of 2 years of work experience.

So, it's literally up to you now. As per my understanding, you will get 2 years of work experience after June 26th. If you submit before it, the recalculated score will be 434 which will result in refusal. If you submit it after June 26th, you will get credit for the two years and your score at e-APR will be 459 which means your application will not be refused.

Personally, I would not recommend you to waste this ITA or jeopardize your chance of getting PR in Canada. If you are still in doubt, an immigration lawyer (a good one) will be able to help you. She/he will suggest the same.
are you sure about this? I do not think this is accurate, they 'll calculate/verify the score as of date of invitation. Lets suppose a person got an ITA 5 days before their birthday and they lost 5 points on their birthday and they submit the documents one month after receiving the ITA their application will not be rejected as they had not lost those age points at the time ITA was issued. IMO points are calculated/verified with reference to date of ITA. If you have some official source for your claim please share for the benefit of everyone.
 

indianstudent96

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are you sure about this? I do not think this is accurate, they 'll calculate/verify the score as of date of invitation. Lets suppose a person got an ITA 5 days before their birthday and they lost 5 points on their birthday and they submit the documents one month after receiving the ITA their application will not be rejected as they had not lost those age points at the time ITA was issued. IMO points are calculated/verified with reference to date of ITA. If you have some official source for your claim please share for the benefit of everyone.
Sure, why not?

As per section A11.2
(source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/express-entry/assessing-electronic-application-on-section-a11-2.html)


Requirement to maintain the CRS score
Ministerial Instructions given under the authority of paragraph A10.3(1)(h) determine the basis on which Express Entry candidates are ranked. Under section A11.2, applicants are required to maintain the qualifications that led them to be included in the top-ranked candidates to be issued an ITA in a particular round of invitations.
When a round of invitations occurs, IRCC invites the top-ranked candidates in the Express Entry pool to apply for permanent residence. Candidates in the pool are ranked based on self-declared qualifications in their profile and according to IRCC’s CRS. After each round of invitations, IRCC publishes the score of the lowest-ranked candidate to receive an ITA in that round of invitations.
An applicant’s CRS score is automatically recorded in GCMS at the time when
  • their ITA is issued; and
  • their e-APR is submitted.
At the time of the e-APR, processing officers should compare both CRS scores to determine which of the following scenarios should be applied:
  • If the applicant’s CRS score at the time of the e-APR is equal to or higher than the lowest-ranked score in the round of invitations, the application will not be refused under section A11.2, as long as the applicant’s supporting documentation corroborates their claims and they continue to meet the MEC for Express Entry, including the requirements of the program to which they were invited to apply.
  • If the applicant’s CRS score at the time of the e-APR is lower than the lowest-ranked score in the round of invitations, the application should be refused under section A11.2 for not having maintained the qualifications that would justify the ITA.
Ministerial Instructions related to the CRS may be revised periodically. Applications must be assessed under section A11.2 according to the Ministerial Instructions in force during the round of invitations to which the candidate is invited. In other words, an applicant’s CRS score at the time of the ITA and at the time of application should be calculated based on the Ministerial Instructions in place at the time of the ITA.


As you can read from the above lines, the score is recorded both at the ITA and the e-APR. The officer will make a decision based on the e-APR score.

I had also mentioned about MEC and I am still not changing what I said. The OP met Minimum Entry Criteria at the ITA because he/she had at least 1 year of work experience and a CLB score that allowed them to create a profile. This is not the case for those who have work experience short of 1 year. As per the OP's post, he/she is few weeks away from completing two years of work experience. The section below is for MEC:



Requirement to maintain the MEC
Ministerial Instructions created under the authority of section A10.3(1)(e) list the MEC for Express Entry. Applicants must meet the MEC to be accepted into the Express Entry pool and must also meet the MEC when they are issued an ITA and when they submit their e-APR.
If an applicant’s situation changes in the time between when they receive an ITA and when they submit their e-APR to such a degree that their qualifications fall below the MEC, the application must be refused under section A11.2. The officer must also consider whether the application should be refused for not meeting the minimum requirements of the federal program to which they are applying or for misrepresentation.

Lastly for age, an exception is made for candidates who lose points due to having their birthday after the time of ITA

Exemption to section A11.2: candidates whose birthday occurs after they receive an ITA
An applicant may have a birthday after they receive an ITA but before they submit their e-APR. Their change in age may lower their CRS score below the lowest score in the round of invitations. It may also result in the applicant no longer meeting the minimum requirements of the FSWC and, consequently, no longer meeting the MEC, resulting in a refusal based on section A11.2.
When a change in age results in the candidate no longer meeting the MEC or having their recalculated CRS points score fall below the lowest points score in that round of invitations, officers should consider applying the public policy to exempt applicants for permanent residence from certain age-based requirements between invitation to apply and application, based on section A25.2. This consideration can result in an exemption from the refusal of an application under section A11.2.
This public policy also grants an exemption to applicants who may be refused for failing to meet FSWC program requirements when their birthday occurs between the ITA and e-APR.


Source: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/section-11.2.html

Visa or other document not to be issued

  • 11.2 (1) An officer may not issue a visa or other document in respect of an application for permanent residence to a foreign national who was issued an invitation under Division 0.1 to make that application if — at the time the invitation was issued or at the time the officer received their application — the foreign national did not meet the criteria set out in an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(e) or did not have the qualifications on the basis of which they were ranked under an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(h) and were issued the invitation.
  • Exceptions
    (2) Despite subsection (1), an officer may issue the visa or other document if, at the time the officer received their application,
    • (a) the foreign national did not meet the criteria set out in an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(e) — or did not have the qualifications on the basis of which they were ranked under an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(h) — because the applicant’s birthday occurred after the invitation was issued; or
    • (b) the foreign national did not have the qualifications they had at the time the invitation was issued and on the basis of which they were ranked under an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(h), but
      • (i) they met the criteria set out in an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(e), and
      • (ii) they occupied a rank that is not lower than the rank that a foreign national was required to have occupied to be invited to make an application.
The bold portion applies to the OP's circumstances. If you have more questions, feel free to post your questions!
 
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jyoti09

Member
Jan 7, 2018
19
2
I have a bit similar situation here.

My scenario:
I received graduation letter from my college on May 2nd 2019 and on the same day I applied for my PGWP and got confirmation on 3rd May 2019.

I received my pay-slip starting May 2nd 2019. I worked for the company till 29th April 2020 (without any vacations or leave taken )and got laid off after that due to covid.

My questions are:
1) Will the officer have any objection since I started my work before the day I received confirmation.
2) As I calculated my working days and weeks online, it says excluding all weekdays and public holidays my work days are 253,
and my total working hours is : 253 * 8 = 2024 > 1560 (good so far)
3) But, total days are: 364 days which is 11 months 28 days which is 52 weeks.
My current score is 462 and expecting ITA comming week. I want to be very honest with my application and have no idea what to do.

Should I wait or what should I do.
 
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indianstudent96

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I have a bit similar situation here.

My scenario:
I received graduation letter from my college on May 2nd 2019 and on the same day I applied for my PGWP and got confirmation on 3rd May 2019.

I received my pay-slip starting May 2nd 2019. I worked for the company till 29th April 2020 (without any vacations or leave taken )and got laid off after that due to covid.

My questions are:
1) Will the officer have any objection since I started my work before the day I received confirmation.
2) As I calculated my working days and weeks online, it says excluding all weekdays and public holidays my work days are 253,
and my total working hours is : 253 * 8 = 2024 > 1560 (good so far)
3) But, total days are: 364 days which is 11 months 28 days which is 52 weeks.
My current score is 462 and expecting ITA comming week. I want to be very honest with my application and have no idea what to do.

Should I wait or what should I do.
Explain it in the letter of explanation. I believe you can start working as soon as you submit your application for PGWP which is exactly what you did. As per one year of work experience, all you need is 52 weeks of 30 hrs or more of employment.
 

Lazers2416

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May 6, 2020
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Sure, why not?

As per section A11.2
(source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/express-entry/assessing-electronic-application-on-section-a11-2.html)


Requirement to maintain the CRS score
Ministerial Instructions given under the authority of paragraph A10.3(1)(h) determine the basis on which Express Entry candidates are ranked. Under section A11.2, applicants are required to maintain the qualifications that led them to be included in the top-ranked candidates to be issued an ITA in a particular round of invitations.
When a round of invitations occurs, IRCC invites the top-ranked candidates in the Express Entry pool to apply for permanent residence. Candidates in the pool are ranked based on self-declared qualifications in their profile and according to IRCC’s CRS. After each round of invitations, IRCC publishes the score of the lowest-ranked candidate to receive an ITA in that round of invitations.
An applicant’s CRS score is automatically recorded in GCMS at the time when
  • their ITA is issued; and
  • their e-APR is submitted.
At the time of the e-APR, processing officers should compare both CRS scores to determine which of the following scenarios should be applied:
  • If the applicant’s CRS score at the time of the e-APR is equal to or higher than the lowest-ranked score in the round of invitations, the application will not be refused under section A11.2, as long as the applicant’s supporting documentation corroborates their claims and they continue to meet the MEC for Express Entry, including the requirements of the program to which they were invited to apply.
  • If the applicant’s CRS score at the time of the e-APR is lower than the lowest-ranked score in the round of invitations, the application should be refused under section A11.2 for not having maintained the qualifications that would justify the ITA.
Ministerial Instructions related to the CRS may be revised periodically. Applications must be assessed under section A11.2 according to the Ministerial Instructions in force during the round of invitations to which the candidate is invited. In other words, an applicant’s CRS score at the time of the ITA and at the time of application should be calculated based on the Ministerial Instructions in place at the time of the ITA.


As you can read from the above lines, the score is recorded both at the ITA and the e-APR. The officer will make a decision based on the e-APR score.

I had also mentioned about MEC and I am still not changing what I said. The OP met Minimum Entry Criteria at the ITA because he/she had at least 1 year of work experience and a CLB score that allowed them to create a profile. This is not the case for those who have work experience short of 1 year. As per the OP's post, he/she is few weeks away from completing two years of work experience. The section below is for MEC:



Requirement to maintain the MEC
Ministerial Instructions created under the authority of section A10.3(1)(e) list the MEC for Express Entry. Applicants must meet the MEC to be accepted into the Express Entry pool and must also meet the MEC when they are issued an ITA and when they submit their e-APR.
If an applicant’s situation changes in the time between when they receive an ITA and when they submit their e-APR to such a degree that their qualifications fall below the MEC, the application must be refused under section A11.2. The officer must also consider whether the application should be refused for not meeting the minimum requirements of the federal program to which they are applying or for misrepresentation.

Lastly for age, an exception is made for candidates who lose points due to having their birthday after the time of ITA

Exemption to section A11.2: candidates whose birthday occurs after they receive an ITA
An applicant may have a birthday after they receive an ITA but before they submit their e-APR. Their change in age may lower their CRS score below the lowest score in the round of invitations. It may also result in the applicant no longer meeting the minimum requirements of the FSWC and, consequently, no longer meeting the MEC, resulting in a refusal based on section A11.2.
When a change in age results in the candidate no longer meeting the MEC or having their recalculated CRS points score fall below the lowest points score in that round of invitations, officers should consider applying the public policy to exempt applicants for permanent residence from certain age-based requirements between invitation to apply and application, based on section A25.2. This consideration can result in an exemption from the refusal of an application under section A11.2.
This public policy also grants an exemption to applicants who may be refused for failing to meet FSWC program requirements when their birthday occurs between the ITA and e-APR.


Source: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/section-11.2.html

Visa or other document not to be issued

  • 11.2 (1) An officer may not issue a visa or other document in respect of an application for permanent residence to a foreign national who was issued an invitation under Division 0.1 to make that application if — at the time the invitation was issued or at the time the officer received their application — the foreign national did not meet the criteria set out in an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(e) or did not have the qualifications on the basis of which they were ranked under an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(h) and were issued the invitation.
  • Exceptions
    (2) Despite subsection (1), an officer may issue the visa or other document if, at the time the officer received their application,
    • (a) the foreign national did not meet the criteria set out in an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(e) — or did not have the qualifications on the basis of which they were ranked under an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(h) — because the applicant’s birthday occurred after the invitation was issued; or
    • (b) the foreign national did not have the qualifications they had at the time the invitation was issued and on the basis of which they were ranked under an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(h), but
      • (i) they met the criteria set out in an instruction given under paragraph 10.3(1)(e), and
      • (ii) they occupied a rank that is not lower than the rank that a foreign national was required to have occupied to be invited to make an application.
The bold portion applies to the OP's circumstances. If you have more questions, feel free to post your questions!
Thank you for including that information! I think to play it safe I will apply after my two years are complete. However I did meet with a lawyer today and they said there’s no reason I need to wait? They’re saying I can apply before June and it won’t be a problem. I spoke with 2 other consultants and they said the same thing. Whatever the case, I have until July 1 to submit my eAPR so I will be patient.
 

indianstudent96

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Thank you for including that information! I think to play it safe I will apply after my two years are complete. However I did meet with a lawyer today and they said there’s no reason I need to wait? They’re saying I can apply before June and it won’t be a problem. I spoke with 2 other consultants and they said the same thing. Whatever the case, I have until July 1 to submit my eAPR so I will be patient.
Really? Did they really ask you to apply before you complete 2 years of work experience? Are they reputable and licensed representatives? No one in their sane mind will suggest that. The only way you would get your application approved that way is an oversight on the VO's part. If I were you, I would not hire them for my application. They don't know their shit. Wait and apply! I wish you the best.
 

Lazers2416

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Yes one was a licensed immigration lawyer and the other two were certified under IRCC so I’m not sure why they would recommend otherwise. But I will definitely wait, I’ve come so far already no point in throwing it all away just to save a few weeks. Thanks for all your input, appreciated!
 
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