Sponsorship and study permit

[unihb]

Hi all,

I've spent hours reading through various threads via Google search, and I haven't been able to find any situations like mine, which are a bit unique, so I'm creating a new thread.

I'm a Canadian citizen, and my wife is Korean. We got married in Korea and still live here, but we're looking to move to Quebec in July (wife has applied to school there). Now, things are a little bit complicated.. let me explain.

We would like for her to be able to start her studies in September, but average processing times for a sponsorship application is 12 months. Because of that, we are thinking that she would apply for a study permit first, get it approved, and then we would start the sponsorship application. Has anyone done this before? I heard that if you are married to a Canadian citizen, it may be quite difficult to get the study permit approved.

Any advice and shared experiences would be super appreciated. Thanks!

 

[scylla]

Yes - plenty of people have done this and it's certainly doable. Yes - it can be more difficult to get an approved study permit if your spouse is Canadian. However it should be easier for your wife since she's from a country that qualifies for an eTA (i.e. visa exempt). She should make sure that her planned studies in Canada make sense in light of her previous education and work experience.

 

[canuck78]

She'd also have to pay international fees until she gets PR. Would make more sense financially to delay enrolment until she is a PR. She also needs to explain to the school that she will be getting PR so she is competing with the domestic students.

 

[schweisy]

Hi all,

I've spent hours reading through various threads via Google search, and I haven't been able to find any situations like mine, which are a bit unique, so I'm creating a new thread.

I'm a Canadian citizen, and my wife is Korean. We got married in Korea and still live here, but we're looking to move to Quebec in July (wife has applied to school there). Now, things are a little bit complicated.. let me explain.

We would like for her to be able to start her studies in September, but average processing times for a sponsorship application is 12 months. Because of that, we are thinking that she would apply for a study permit first, get it approved, and then we would start the sponsorship application. Has anyone done this before? I heard that if you are married to a Canadian citizen, it may be quite difficult to get the study permit approved.

Any advice and shared experiences would be super appreciated. Thanks!

We are in a very similar situation, and I've also spent hours researching this situation myself, so I'm happy you started this thread!

In our case, I'm a Canadian citizen and my husband is German. We still live in Germany but are looking to move to Ontario in July, where my husband has also applied for university for September (he's applied as a transfer student, to finish his half-completed degree in psychology, so no issues in terms of his choice of study looking odd based on his past).

The one difference from your situation is that we have already submitted his application for PR (was received a month ago in Sydney, no AOR yet), but we are also concerned about it not being approved in time for him to be able to provide proof of status and be allowed to register for classes come August. For that reason, we're also probably going to apply for a student permit once he gets accepted to university but before his PR has gone through just to be on the safe side.

I think the main thing you need to make clear is that your wife is aware and takes seriously that she must leave Canada after her studies end if she doesn't obtain PR status in the meantime. My impression is they are afraid of people coming and either assuming they will be able to stay forever due to their spouse or, worse, aren't even intending to really go to school at all, but it's just a ploy to enter the country. As other posters have said, visa-exempt countries seem at least to be less suspicious in this regard, though, as they just as easily could enter as a visitor.

I have no hard evidence of this, but my hunch is that it might be better to apply for the student permit while her PR is already in process, as it might look a little odd to the CIC that someone with a Canadian citizen spouse is seemingly not applying for PR at all. Having just gone through the application process, I know how lengthy and horrific a task it is, but could you maybe put the PR application together first and then apply for the student permit shortly thereafter? In our case my hope is that my husband's PR application will be sufficiently advanced by that point that they will be able to see in their system it's likely he will receive his PR eventually, which will make our case more understandable/straightforward.

One thing I would strongly advise you to do is to look into the tuition policies for the schools your wife has applied to. I'm not familiar with Quebec's rules specifically, but in Ontario, a dependent of a Canadian citizen pays domestic tuition. I see a lot of misinformation on these boards about this (and I too originally assumed my husband would have to pay international tuition without full PR status), but I have verified this repeatedly both with the universities' published tuition regulations as well as with the provincial guidelines. Student loans, however, can only be granted to someone with PR/citizen status, so that might be an important consideration.

All of that is just what I have surmised from my own intelligence gathering, though -- I'd also love to hear from anyone who's had more concrete experience with this type of situation!

 

[canuck78]

We are in a very similar situation, and I've also spent hours researching this situation myself, so I'm happy you started this thread!

In our case, I'm a Canadian citizen and my husband is German. We still live in Germany but are looking to move to Ontario in July, where my husband has also applied for university for September (he's applied as a transfer student, to finish his half-completed degree in psychology, so no issues in terms of his choice of study looking odd based on his past).

The one difference from your situation is that we have already submitted his application for PR (was received a month ago in Sydney, no AOR yet), but we are also concerned about it not being approved in time for him to be able to provide proof of status and be allowed to register for classes come August. For that reason, we're also probably going to apply for a student permit once he gets accepted to university but before his PR has gone through just to be on the safe side.

I think the main thing you need to make clear is that your wife is aware and takes seriously that she must leave Canada after her studies end if she doesn't obtain PR status in the meantime. My impression is they are afraid of people coming and either assuming they will be able to stay forever due to their spouse or, worse, aren't even intending to really go to school at all, but it's just a ploy to enter the country. As other posters have said, visa-exempt countries seem at least to be less suspicious in this regard, though, as they just as easily could enter as a visitor.

I have no hard evidence of this, but my hunch is that it might be better to apply for the student permit while her PR is already in process, as it might look a little odd to the CIC that someone with a Canadian citizen spouse is seemingly not applying for PR at all. Having just gone through the application process, I know how lengthy and horrific a task it is, but could you maybe put the PR application together first and then apply for the student permit shortly thereafter? In our case my hope is that my husband's PR application will be sufficiently advanced by that point that they will be able to see in their system it's likely he will receive his PR eventually, which will make our case more understandable/straightforward.

One thing I would strongly advise you to do is to look into the tuition policies for the schools your wife has applied to. I'm not familiar with Quebec's rules specifically, but in Ontario, a dependent of a Canadian citizen pays domestic tuition. I see a lot of misinformation on these boards about this (and I too originally assumed my husband would have to pay international tuition without full PR status), but I have verified this repeatedly both with the universities' published tuition regulations as well as with the provincial guidelines. Student loans, however, can only be granted to someone with PR/citizen status, so that might be an important consideration.

All of that is just what I have surmised from my own intelligence gathering, though -- I'd also love to hear from anyone who's had more concrete experience with this type of situation!

I just looked up the policy because I was sure spouses of citizens and PRs didn't qualify for domestic tuition. I believe dependents means children not spouses.

http://www.fees.utoronto.ca/sessions/summer_2018/tuition_fees/international_fee_exemptions.htm

 

[schweisy]

I just looked up the policy because I was sure spouses of citizens and PRs didn't qualify for domestic tuition. I believe dependents means children not spouses.

http://www.fees.utoronto.ca/sessions/summer_2018/tuition_fees/international_fee_exemptions.htm

Actually, if you scroll down you'll see the following definition of dependents (I was surprised and really happy to discover it myself!):

Dependents

Dependents are defined as:


a) a spouse;

b) a common-law partner*
*An affidavit signed by both spouses, confirming that they are living together in a conjugal relationship for not less than three years, or that they are living together in a conjugal relationship and are raising any children of whom they both are the natural or adoptive parent, is required to verify their common-law status.

c) a dependent child or the dependent child of a spouse or common-law partner;

d) a dependent child of the dependent child referred to above.

 

[canuck78]

I am really shocked. In cases like U of T people have been denied without a valid PR card.

 

[canuck78]

http://www.registrar.uwo.ca/student_finances/fees_refunds/who_pays_canadian_tuition_fees.html

This is what I expected to see and this is another Ontario university. Didn't look up the Appendix.

 

[schweisy]

I am really shocked. In cases like U of T people have been denied without a valid PR card.

It's super surprising (and a little counterintuitive), I know! I do recall seeing a thread somewhere in the archives where someone mentioned that they had called the university they were about to attend and the advisor confirmed that they would be paying domestic tuition as a spouse of a Canadian (I think the poster was American).

One thing I will say is that this policy does result in a weird situation where you have to apply for a student permit even though you are eligible for domestic tuition, as you can't attend more than 6 months of school without a student permit/PR/citizenship. When you go to register you need to show this proof of legal status, and it can't just be your marriage licence of course. Perhaps some of the people who were denied the domestic tuition thought they could show up in the country as a visitor and then enroll at domestic tuition rates?

It's upsetting to think people have actually been denied, though having worked in university administration for a long time myself, I would not be surprised if the people manning the help desks are sadly not knowledgeable enough to understand these less common aspects of the regulation. Either way, I really do hope this information gets out there better so that people are aware of their rights and can fight back if some university administrator doesn't know what they're talking about! (By the way, you're one of the few posters I actually remember by name from my own obsessive searching through these forums as I prepared my husband's PR application as your posts were consistently knowledgeable and sensible. Many thanks from an anonymous reader, and hopefully you can do a better job of spreading the intel about these uni policies than I as a newbie ever could!)

 

[schweisy]

http://www.registrar.uwo.ca/student_finances/fees_refunds/who_pays_canadian_tuition_fees.html

This is what I expected to see and this is another Ontario university. Didn't look up the Appendix.

As I understand it, all universities receiving public funds have to administer their funds according to the same provincial operating manual (Ministry of Advanced Education and Skills Development Operating Funds Distribution Manual), so Western would also fall under this, it's just their language is more opaque here, as they reprinted the text directly from the government manual. Notice this section:

4.1.3. Eligible International Students


The status of all international students who are eligible to be counted for operating grant purposes must be fully documented and valid during the academic period for which they are being counted. *


An international student is eligible to be counted for operating grant purposes if that student falls within any of the following categories:


a) A person who is the dependent (see Section 1.1.7 for definition) of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada.


"Operating grant purposes" is legalese here for students eligible to receive public funds (aka domestic tuition).

 

[canuck78]

Skipped that part because I thought it pertained to who qualifies for international student status. Please update us. I'm curious to see what kind of pushback you'll get.

 

[canuck78]

It's super surprising (and a little counterintuitive), I know! I do recall seeing a thread somewhere in the archives where someone mentioned that they had called the university they were about to attend and the advisor confirmed that they would be paying domestic tuition as a spouse of a Canadian (I think the poster was American).

One thing I will say is that this policy does result in a weird situation where you have to apply for a student permit even though you are eligible for domestic tuition, as you can't attend more than 6 months of school without a student permit/PR/citizenship. When you go to register you need to show this proof of legal status, and it can't just be your marriage licence of course. Perhaps some of the people who were denied the domestic tuition thought they could show up in the country as a visitor and then enroll at domestic tuition rates?

It's upsetting to think people have actually been denied, though having worked in university administration for a long time myself, I would not be surprised if the people manning the help desks are sadly not knowledgeable enough to understand these less common aspects of the regulation. Either way, I really do hope this information gets out there better so that people are aware of their rights and can fight back if some university administrator doesn't know what they're talking about! (By the way, you're one of the few posters I actually remember by name from my own obsessive searching through these forums as I prepared my husband's PR application as your posts were consistently knowledgeable and sensible. Many thanks from an anonymous reader, and hopefully you can do a better job of spreading the intel about these uni policies than I as a newbie ever could!)

Usually it is a case where PRs who have not met their ROs have been able to enter Canada without being reported but don't have a valid PR card. They have been told that they can't study without a valid PR card. There seems to be a lot of variability between schools and between provinces. That is the case for many things. For example BC requires a valid PR card to attend elementary/secondary school, renew driver's license, sign up for MSP. Some other provinces allow you to do these things with landing documents. Then there are also many errors and lack of knowledge between offices and employees within the offices. I'd bring in all the documentation you've researched. I expect that you'll need to prove that you are right.

 

[schweisy]

Skipped that part because I thought it pertained to who qualifies for international student status. Please update us. I'm curious to see what kind of pushback you'll get.

Sure, would be more than happy to once we actually get there!

In the meantime, if anyone needs to argue their case, I took a second to look up the link to the Ontario government manual I referred to. Page 30 lists the institutions that are eligible for public funding and page 45 has the definition regarding international students who qualify to be counted as domestic students.

Universities have a deadline to report the number of students considered eligible for public funds to the Ontario government (I believe it's around November 1), so I do know that if you are trying to have your status changed for a given year, you must do it with the registrar before that deadline.

Hope this is helpful to someone out there! (And sorry for the slight hijack, OP!)

 

[schweisy]

Usually it is a case where PRs who have not met their ROs have been able to enter Canada without being reported but don't have a valid PR card. They have been told that they can't study without a valid PR card. There seems to be a lot of variability between schools and between provinces. That is the case for many things. For example BC requires a valid PR card to attend elementary/secondary school, renew driver's license, sign up for MSP. Some other provinces allow you to do these things with landing documents. Then there are also many errors and lack of knowledge between offices and employees within the offices. I'd bring in all the documentation you've researched. I expect that you'll need to prove that you are right.

Yeah, I definitely can't speak to any other province at all; I've been researching Ontario exclusively. But I've spent enough time working in bureaucracies (university admin, no less) to know the left hand never knows what the right hand is doing, so I will absolutely be bringing in my research in case. Always good to know what your rights are going in so that you can't be intimidated by people who don't understand their own policies (living in paperwork-happy and rule-obsessed Germany has been good practice for this ).

It's good that you point out a situation like PRs who are returning but haven't met their ROs, as that sounds like it would be a much different case in the eyes of the powers-that-be than the (relatively) straightforward case of a person who is a dependent of a citizen (not a PR) and who has already acquired a valid student permit. (Of course, I'm already dreading getting confirmation of his actual domestic tuition costs in order to apply for said student permit, as there is no way we can prove enough money to pay international tuition! It just never ends....)

 

[schweisy]

It's good that you point out a situation like PRs who are returning but haven't met their ROs, as that sounds like it would be a much different case in the eyes of the powers-that-be than the (relatively) straightforward case of a person who is a dependent of a citizen (not a PR) and who has already acquired a valid student permit. (Of course, I'm already dreading getting confirmation of his actual domestic tuition costs in order to apply for said student permit, as there is no way we can prove enough money to pay international tuition! It just never ends....)

Actually, I just realized this situation does make logical sense as well if you follow it through: in order to register at an Ontario university you must show them proof of legal status in Canada, so even my husband will need to show one of three things: a PR card, citizenship, or a valid student permit. (He can't just show up and say he's married to me and then register for classes.) So for people without a valid PR card, it doesn't matter if they're dependent on a Canadian, they're not able to prove legal status in the country, which is their ultimate problem. ... Right?