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irasmus

Newbie
Jan 20, 2016
4
0
I landed with my family in Feb 2011 and stayed for 14 days in Canada and then left, I never went back and continued with my job in France then oversea (oil&gas). My PR card (& spouse PR) is expiring in April 2016 (my daughter PR expires Jun 2016).
Sept 2011 my wife re-started medical studies at university till June 2013, then quite (because hardly sustainable studies with child in charge). In 2012 we obtained French citizenship (not yet declared to CIC).
We tried to find a job in Canada, and was not easy task (because we don't have US or Canadian experiences), being fresh graduated from university (PhD both of us).

My wife started first job in Middle East since May 2014 till now as researcher. After this experience, now we decide to move to Canada September 2016, even if she doesn't find a job before. I still working (for oil&gas company), and i am asking my company the possibility to assign me to TOTAL’s Canadian branch.

I want to evaluate our chances to get our PR renewed:
- Our PR will expire April 2016 + daughter's PR 30th June 2016.
We are planning to travel to Canada June/July 2016, to stay definitely there.

Please advice.
 
irasmus said:
I landed with my family in Feb 2011 and stayed for 14 days in Canada and then left, I never went back and continued with my job in France then oversea (oil&gas). My PR card (& spouse PR) is expiring in April 2016 (my daughter PR expires Jun 2016).
Sept 2011 my wife re-started medical studies at university till June 2013, then quite (because hardly sustainable studies with child in charge). In 2012 we obtained French citizenship (not yet declared to CIC).
We tried to find a job in Canada, and was not easy task (because we don't have US or Canadian experiences), being fresh graduated from university (PhD both of us).

My wife started first job in Middle East since May 2014 till now as researcher. After this experience, now we decide to move to Canada September 2016, even if she doesn't find a job before. I still working (for oil&gas company), and i am asking my company the possibility to assign me to TOTAL’s Canadian branch.

I want to evaluate our chances to get our PR renewed:
- Our PR will expire April 2016 + daughter's PR 30th June 2016.
We are planning to travel to Canada June/July 2016, to stay definitely there.

Please advice.

PR status does not expire. The PR cards will expire.

PR status may be revoked or terminated. One ground for terminating PR status is the failure to comply with the PR Residency Obligation.

It appears you and your family have not complied with the PR Residency Obligation, and based on what you report there probably are not sufficient H&C reasons which will allow you to retain PR status.

Thus, odds are you need to reconsider your plan to come to Canada to stay.

There are ways to attempt working around this. Perhaps others will offer suggestions about how to do that.
 
Thank you dpenabill for your swift reply.

We didn’t fulfill PR Residency Obligation, no doubt for this, and we don’t have a real H&C reasons to support our demand to renew PR. That’s why I explain my situation above, may be someone can advice me.

Despite above, we want really move to Canada definitely next July 2016. And want to evaluate our chances to renew our PR, to facilitates our installation at Canada (rent house, School for our daughter, buy a car … etc).
We can show only our motivation to go to Canada definitely:
I’m asking and pushing my company the possibility to assign me to TOTAL’s Canadian branch (oil&gas company), and my wife searching for job in bioinformatics filed at Canada.

Thanks for your advices :)
 
irasmus said:
I want to evaluate our chances to get our PR renewed:
- Our PR will expire April 2016 + daughter's PR 30th June 2016.
We are planning to travel to Canada June/July 2016, to stay definitely there.

Please advice.

You can't fly directly to Canada with an expired PR card, nor will you qualify to get an eTA to board a plane as a visitor since you are still a PR. So to fly directly to Canada as a PR with expired PR card you would need to apply for a PR Travel Document. This will trigger an automatic investigation into your residency requirement, and most likely would result in your PR status being revoked.

You can instead fly to the USA, and attempt to travel into Canada with a rental car. This way you don't need a PR Travel Document. 2 things would happen here:
1. CBSA will notice you don't meet residency obligation, and will report you to CIC. You can then enter Canada but will need to attend a hearing with CIC where you can present any H&C reasons for not meeting RO. If this happens, most likely your PRs will be revoked since your reasons for not meeting RO do not fall under H&C, and you'll need to leave Canada.
2. CBSA will not report you. In this case all of you can enter Canada, and must stay in Canada for 2 straight year without leaving for any reason, before you can apply to renew your PR status. During these 2 years, you may find it's difficult to do some things with expired PR cards. If you try to renew your PR cards earlier than 2 years, it will again trigger an investigation and again your PRs will most likely be revoked.

Looking at everything here, the most likely situation is your PR status will be revoked. If this happens you can try to apply for PR again if you qualify under any of the current programs.
 
Thank you so much Rob_TO for your prompt response and valuable advice,

It’s more clear that eTA is not a solution with my French passport, but if we success to get in without CBSA report us from US border, you mentioned that “During these 2 years, you may find it's difficult to do some things with expired PR cards”. What do you mean?
I will not be able to rent house (apartment), register my daughter in School (6year old), buy a car, get canadian driving licence … etc.

Second question:
Most probably, I can’t stay permanently in Canada, because I'm working in oil&gas company (1month at Angola, then one month off will be at Canada) at least till summer 2017, before getting transferred to TOTAL’s Canada branch.
If I lose my PR status, does all my family lose their PR status?

Thanks again for your patience and advice.
 
irasmus said:
Thank you so much Rob_TO for your prompt response and valuable advice,

It’s more clear that eTA is not a solution with my French passport, but if we success to get in without CBSA report us from US border, you mentioned that “During these 2 years, you may find it's difficult to do some things with expired PR cards”. What do you mean?
I will not be able to rent house (apartment), register my daughter in School (6year old), buy a car, get canadian driving licence ... etc.

Second question:
Most probably, I can’t stay permanently in Canada, because I'm working in oil&gas company (1month at Angola, then one month off will be at Canada) at least till summer 2017, before getting transferred to TOTAL’s Canada branch.
If I lose my PR status, does all my family lose their PR status?

Thanks again for your patience and advice.

Without a valid PR card, you should be able to rent but you might have a problem getting a drivers license and a health card. Some employers ask for a PR card too.

Losing your PR status has no affect on your family. If your wife and child live in Canada and meet the RO, they keep theirs and your wife can sponsor you for PR again if she meets the RO herself.
 
irasmus said:
I will not be able to rent house (apartment), register my daughter in School (6year old), buy a car, get canadian driving licence ... etc.

You may find it difficult to enroll your child at school without a valid PR card. This really depends on the specific school and what their employees are trained to accept as valid proof of PR status.

Second question:
Most probably, I can’t stay permanently in Canada, because I'm working in oil&gas company (1month at Angola, then one month off will be at Canada) at least till summer 2017, before getting transferred to TOTAL’s Canada branch.
If I lose my PR status, does all my family lose their PR status?

You should note that you will NEVER be able to fly to Canada on an expired PR card, since you are ineligible to get an eTA. So in order to return to Canada each time you would need to cross at a USA land border in a car, or voluntarily renounce your PR status and just enter as a visitor.

If you will be leaving so often, odds are you will be reported anyways and lose your PR status. Not to mention it seems like you will never be able to reach the 2-in-5 years residency requirement to ever renew your PR card.
 
Thank you Rob_TO and Leon, nice to have helpful people like you, God bless you.

May I ask you other questions:
I am planning to go to Ontario (Ottawa or Toronto), it depends if/where my wife find a job, and my daughter has valid PR card till 30 June 2016. Is it possible to register her (before PR expiration) in school from abroad?

Is it possible to drive with the French driving license? and for how long maximum?
Is there any provinces which facilitate procedure to obtain driving license in our case?

Thanks again for your advice.
 
irasmus said:
Thank you Rob_TO and Leon, nice to have helpful people like you, God bless you.

May I ask you other questions:
I am planning to go to Ontario (Ottawa or Toronto), it depends if/where my wife find a job, and my daughter has valid PR card till 30 June 2016. Is it possible to register her (before PR expiration) in school from abroad?

Is it possible to drive with the French driving license? and for how long maximum?
Is there any provinces which facilitate procedure to obtain driving license in our case?

Thanks again for your advice.

In order to enroll her in school, you have to know which school district you will live in. That is, you have to have an address. If you enroll her in private school you will be paying anyway in which case it does not matter if her PR card is valid or not.

In Ontario, you can drive with a foreign license for 2 months before you have to do an exchange. Ontario as far as I know does not require you to be a PR in order to get a license there so you should be able to exchange your license regardless.
 
irasmus said:
It’s more clear that eTA is not a solution with my French passport, but if we success to get in without CBSA report us from US border, you mentioned that “During these 2 years, you may find it's difficult to do some things with expired PR cards”. What do you mean?
I will not be able to rent house (apartment), register my daughter in School (6year old), buy a car, get canadian driving licence ... etc.

Renting house: Not a problem. We did it as visitors - landlords don't have to check immigration status.
School: Shouldn't be a problem, but schools are sometimes a pain to deal with. Your CoPR should work.
Buy a car: Shouldn't be a problem.
Driving License: May be a problem, particularly in BC. They issue temporary cards until you get a PR card. Other provinces are better.

Most probably, I can’t stay permanently in Canada, because I'm working in oil&gas company (1month at Angola, then one month off will be at Canada) at least till summer 2017, before getting transferred to TOTAL’s Canada branch.
If I lose my PR status, does all my family lose their PR status?

No.
 
Mates,

is the PR (individual) required to enter to Canada on his PR status only? Can't PR enters Canada on EU passport as a visitor when he holds on his PR status? With EU passport, aren't we visa exempt?

I think the OP in my little experience may need to enter Canada before expirey of his PR otherwsie any entry with expired PR and with French nationality obtained during the qualifying period will most probably trigger RQ straight followed by removal order which may have long term implications on future applications.

I guess the OP will have to make tough decision either in favor or work retention or being PR in Canada. I am very much in the same situation and had to renounce my work and come back to Canada before expirey of my PR. I worked for a Canadian employer overseas and they were not willing to help me but I choos Canada given that qualifying for PR in future is virtually impossible.
 
dabas said:
Mates,

is the PR (individual) required to enter to Canada on his PR status only? Can't PR enters Canada on EU passport as a visitor when he holds on his PR status? With EU passport, aren't we visa exempt?

As mentioned above, the new eTA process becomes mandatory in March 2016. After this, all visa-exempt travelers are required to apply for and get an eTA approved. But if one is a PR, the eTA is not possible to get. So you can no longer fly to Canada on a visa-exempt passport if you're a PR and don't have a valid PR card on you.
 
Rob_TO said:
As mentioned above, the new eTA process becomes mandatory in Marcy 2016. After this, all visa-exempt travelers are required to apply for and get an eTA approved. But if one is a PR, the eTA is not possible to get. So you can no longer fly to Canada on a visa-exempt passport if you're a PR and don't have a valid PR card on you.

Hi Rob-TO and members,

How would CIC / CBSA recognize that the PR is entering on a foreign passport say from EU if this passport and associated citizenship were never declared nor linked to the PR and were obtained after landing and after becoming a citizen of a country different from his orginal citizenship linked to his immigration file?

I am just keen to find out as I thought the OP in becoing French can obtain eTA on his new citizenship and passport and enter as a visitor though this may not be legal and may involve withholding information. Will appreciate your thoughts..
 
Now, maybe they wouldn't figure it out when you apply for eTA that you are a PR but when you apply for eTA, they ask you whether you applied to come to Canada in the past so if you answer truthfully, you would have to declare that you had applied for PR. The other option would be lying.

Unlike the past where people might be able to slip in with their visa exempt passport without lying about anything or at least without lying about anything on an application form in writing, you now have to either admit you are a PR or lie on the record.

Lying on the record will leave a trail and after 2 years when you want to renew your PR card, they might very well accuse you of misrepresentation on your eTA form and you would have a problem.
 
dabas said:
How would CIC / CBSA recognize that the PR is entering on a foreign passport say from EU if this passport and associated citizenship were never declared nor linked to the PR and were obtained after landing and after becoming a citizen of a country different from his orginal citizenship linked to his immigration file?

Technical (though slightly oversimplified) discussion ahead:

Many databases are relational in nature - in other words, they link one thing to another.

Ideally, there is something that serves as the "primary key" that identifies a single record. This is something unique, that only one row will have. Some things are unique within a specific context (for example, there will be only one extension 412 in a building, or room 715). Others are unique in a more global context (such as phone numbers). This is part of why there's been a transition from usernames (which are unique only in a given site) to email addresses to login (which are universally unique).

Social Insurance Numbers serve as a unique identifier in Canada. They are stable (unchanging), and un-shared. They are a good way to identify a particular person, and that makes them a good way to link something to a person in a database.

What if you don't have a primary key? Well, you have to try to make one if you want to identify a record.

Let's use an example - specifically, credit files.

In Canada, you don't need to give a SIN to get credit. If you don't give them one, they will try to find you in their records. They search using your name, address, and birthday.

Whenever records get sent to them, they try to find someone that matches. If you move, they won't know the difference between John Smith at one address and a different John Smith at another address. If you update your address with your bank, though, the credit reporting agency is notified, and they can link the old and the new address together.

Or, if you give them a SIN, it can follow you anywhere, even if your name changes.

Credit reports are similar to what what is done with immigration and criminal records.

When your data is checked in the immigration system, they first check if there's a watch out for you. If your name is on a high priority list, or your card #/passport # is flagged, you get stopped.

They can also refer you for a more thorough examination. This is where fuzzy matching gets involved.

During this more thorough examination, they do a search for information matching yours. They search worldwide criminal histories, by name and approximate birthday. If a match shows up, they take the time to figure out if it's you - looking at your family, your travel history, even calling the government if necessary. This is a time consuming process and is prone to errors, so they generally don't do it unless there's something suspicious about you.

With immigration status, they do things similarly, but in a different direction. Unlike criminal history (where they assume it's you, then prove it's not), immigration starts from the assumption you don't have status (then they try to validate otherwise).

In other words, if I go to the border and present a document they aren't aware of (like an enhanced ID), if there is a hit on a watchlist, they assume I'm a suspect. They also assume that I'm a visitor unless I give them information to the contrary. The computer won't automatically match records for them unless the primary key is present, because without some matching ID, they aren't certain there is a match.

Now, if you have multiple passports, it is technically possible to come in and pretend to be a visitor. From a computer standpoint, you are a new person, and they won't know.

From a human standpoint, it's another matter. If they go searching, they can find you by name, birthday, and place of birth (which is on almost all passports). Unless your name is something like "Ahmed Muhammed", there will likely be very few people with the same exact name, the same exact birthday, and the same exact country.

There will likely be a few if you have a common name (which is why they won't automatically assume) - they don't want to be treating people as permanent residents who don't have it.

Misrepresentation is not something to mess around with. All you need is to get pulled into secondary (which happens very commonly if you don't have a return ticket), and you can end up losing PR and banned from the country.
 
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