IMM 5490 question 4,5 - gifts. is it after or before

[draxz1289]

Hello,

We are filling out this form and have a question. Our marriage was arranged; and were engaged for a year and a half (she was in India)

The question is: did the sponsor exchange gifts and vice versa during the relationship. We are confused what to fill; we exchanged gift during our engagement period and at the engagement ceremony

Should we list that?

Thanks in advance

 

[taffy7]

yes !!! gifts such as flowers, birthday presents, Christmas presents anything you have.

 

[elmatador]

The title of this Section in the form is FIRST MEETING. My understanding is that it is referring to gifts exchanged in the first meeting. Not during the entire relationship.

 

[draxz1289]

Since ours was arranged would it be after the engagement then?

 

[tink23]

Since ours was arranged would it be after the engagement then?

Did you give him gifts or dowry when your first met for your engagement? Then the answer is yes. I'm assuming since this is arranged that your family had to give gifts or money to your husband's family. This is where you explain what you and your family gave.

 

[ydj_dil]

I would be a bit cautious here. Dowry is illegal, so I hope you didn't take it. Regardless, gifts should probably be normal ones like the type couples exchange - flowers, chocolates, t-shirts etc. If you list a bunch of gold and cash as gifts that you have given, or have taken, not only does it seem like dowry, but it may also seem like "money paid for getting PR". So be cautious. But don't be entirely dishonest too. After all, NDVO knows dowry exists in India.

In my case, there was no dowry exchanged, so we listed normal gifts that my wife and I exchanged when we first met (ours was arranged too) - flowers, chocolates and dress that I gifted her etc.

 

[tink23]

I would be a bit cautious here. Dowry is illegal, so I hope you didn't take it. Regardless, gifts should probably be normal ones like the type couples exchange - flowers, chocolates, t-shirts etc. If you list a bunch of gold and cash as gifts that you have given, or have taken, not only does it seem like dowry, but it may also seem like "money paid for getting PR". So be cautious.

I'm not familiar with arranged marriages, but isn't it normal for countries and cultures that participate in such marriages, that the bride's family gives gifts to the groom's family? I'm pretty sure that's why this question is in there, for reasons of arranged marriages.

 

[ydj_dil]

Yes, it is a cultural norm in India to give dowry from girl's side to boy's side. However, it is also illegal as per law. And there also have been several cases of marriage fraud where the sponsor takes a large sum of money with a promise of PR to the bride. On the other side, this question might also serve as security to the applicant, as there have been cases where the sponsor refuses to take care of the applicant after coming here, in which case they might show this as proof that the sponsor had taken money from them during the relationship.

In any case, I think its best to answer this honestly and from the view of the relationship rather than from a financial perspective.

 

[tink23]

Yes, it is a cultural norm in India to give dowry from girl's side to boy's side. However, it is also illegal as per law. And there also have been several cases of marriage fraud where the sponsor takes a large sum of money with a promise of PR to the bride. On the other side, this question might also serve as security to the applicant, as there have been cases where the sponsor refuses to take care of the applicant after coming here, in which case they might show this as proof that the sponsor had taken money from them during the relationship.

In any case, I think its best to answer this honestly and from the view of the relationship rather than from a financial perspective.

I do agree that it should be illegal to do such a thing. It is then a business transaction, which for a marriage doesn't make sense, at least to me, but maybe that's because I've never known anyone in an arranged marriage...

 

[ydj_dil]

Indeed dowry has no place in a marriage. But, sadly, its norm in India, and is directly linked to several atrocities such as domestic violence on women, female infanticide.

 

[draxz1289]

in our case no dowry was taken or given. It is illegal in India and it definitely happens but its changing slowly.

Our marriage was kind of arranged since we have known each other since childhood (family friends) and grew up liking each other and our parents felt we would make a great couple and got our formally engaged.

I was going to list things I had given: ring for engagement, ring for wedding, perfume and my wife had given clothes for engagement and wedding, perfume.

I was going to mention the above by as elmatador mentioned its in the first meeting section and we are positioning our selves as: we have know each other since childhood (family trip photos shown etc) and our parents got us engaged.

So this is were the confusion is, should we say we exchanged gifts during the engagement since this would be considered an official first meeting even though we have know each other before?

 

[tink23]

in our case no dowry was taken or given. It is illegal in India and it definitely happens but its changing slowly.

Our marriage was kind of arranged since we have known each other since childhood (family friends) and grew up liking each other and our parents felt we would make a great couple and got our formally engaged.

I was going to list things I had given: ring for engagement, ring for wedding, perfume and my wife had given clothes for engagement and wedding, perfume.

I was going to mention the above by as elmatador mentioned its in the first meeting section and we are positioning our selves as: we have know each other since childhood (family trip photos shown etc) and our parents got us engaged.

So this is were the confusion is, should we say we exchanged gifts during the engagement since this would be considered an official first meeting even though we have know each other before?

If you have known each other since childhood then when you were kids would have been when you first met. So I'd assume when you were kids first meeting you didn't exchange gifts.

You can mention the engagement ring and wedding bands, etc. In the application, but you will probably check off, NO, for first meeting gifts being exchanged, since you were little kids.