Can't eTA Surprise...Permanent resident or not? 17 years later!

[jofra]

1st post!
I'm Canadian. 17 years ago my French husband became a permanent resident of Canada and got his social insurance card (which he still has). He never received his permanent resident card though or at least we don't remember ever getting it. I then got a job in France in an International school so we left Canada and thought that since my husband never spent the required 2 years in Canada all was automatically lost. Last week he applied for the new eTA form now needed for French citizens who want to visit Canada. This was the reply;
"A review of your Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA) application has revealed that you are, or once were, a Canadian permanent resident. Canadian permanent residents are expected to use their Canadian Permanent Resident Card when travelling abroad and are not eligible to apply for an eTA."
...So now IS he or WAS he? Not sure how to find this out.
Apparently if he was out of the country accompanying me (a Canadian) he could still be a permanent resident BUT now he needs to apply for a Travel document for permanent residents abroad (lots of paper work and 50$ every time we visit, which is several times a year) OR give up his permanent resident status (without really knowing if it is still valid or not) and then reapply for an eTA.
Plus while in Canada this Summer we will be flying into Canada a second time (a trip within a trip to Florida) Would we need to apply for a 2nd travel document!?
Our (Canadian) children plan on studying in Canada and we have bought an apartment in MTL and planned to eventually redo the paperwork and move back there too. SO if the permanent residency IS still valid it would be silly to give it up and have to start the paperwork all over again in a year or two.
So my questions are;
Any advice?
Do you think it's possible for my husband to still be considered a permanent resident after 17 years!?
Is there an immigration phone # where someone could inform us of my husbands exact status? I looked everywhere!
If we do discover he a resident, Is there any way to apply for a 'never received' Permanent resident card from abroad? (We don't mind receiving it at our Canadian address or picking it up somewhere when we're in MTL this summer)
Any information about our seemingly unique case would be greatly appreciated!
THANKS IN ADVANCE!

 

[Buletruck]

My understanding and somewhat ambiguous answer is he is probably still a PR. Try this link:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=370&top=5

The PR card is really only a travel document and once expired it doesn't indicate your permanent residence status. Time living with you overseas should count towards his residency. If you are in Canada long enough this summer, you could apply while you are back.

Don't have an answer on the holiday within a holiday.....

 

[spyfy]

Hey!
Generally, you are in a much better situation that you think you are.

Here is my assessment in short
Your husband is still a Permanent Resident in good standing. He can’t apply for a PR card, but he can apply for a „multi-entry PR travel document“ which serves the purpose.

In more details, let me explain:

PR status is never lost automatically
In other words: One is a PR until officially determined otherwise. It never happens "silently". One either gives up the status or the government comes to the assessment that one doesn’t fulfill the residency obligation and therefore the status is revoked. Such an investigation by the government is never triggered out of thin air, but it could be triggered if the PR applies for any documents or if the PR crosses the border.

All this is irrelevant to you since your husband fulfilled his residency obligation
by staying with you - his Canadian citizen spouse - for at least 2 years out of the last 5 years and

Nobody cares what happened more than 5 years ago
so even if your husband didn’t stay with you for 10 years further in the past, that wouldn’t be relevant, since only the last five years at the day of the application are relevant.

Technically, your husband can’t apply for a PR card
Since only PRs residing in Canada can apply for a PR card. There are stories though of people who applied for a PR card during a temporary stay in Canada and then had it sent over by a friend later. I have no information on how possible of an outcome this is. But I would recommend this route.

Your husband can apply for a multi entry PR travel document
You are right, normally a PRTD is valid for one single travel, so even for your Floriday vacation you would need another one. But CIC offers multi entry PRTDs, particularly to spouses of Canadians residing outside Canada, see here:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5529ETOC.asp#5529E7
„If you meet the residency obligation but are residing outside of Canada on a long-term basis (for example, if you are a permanent resident accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse), you may want to request a long-term multiple entry travel document. To do so, you should include a cover letter explaining your circumstances and requesting a multiple entry travel document. These can be issued for up to five years but cannot extend beyond the expiry date of your passport.“
There is a recent story on this forum of the Norwegian wife of a Canadian who is living in Switzerland. She got a two year multi entry PRTD.

He should NOT revoke his PR status
Spousal sponsorship is know to be a very strenuous process. Sometimes people wait years before it is approved. Usually, your spouse can get a visa until his PR is (re)approved, but it might be that he wouldn’t be allowed to work until then. But why do all that if your spouse is a PR in good standing?

 

[spyfy]

Also, not that you should do this, but your husband could always "brute force" himself into Canada at the Canadian land border:

He is a PR (because nobody revoked his status) and therefore has a Charter right to enter Canada. He would have to explain his situation at the border and even if the border officer doesn't believe his story (that he stayed with you etc) the officer would have no right to refuse him entry. The worst thing the officer could do is trigger a residency obligation investigation in which you would have nothing to fear since the two of you stayed together. You would have to prove that with documents and such though.

I do NOT recommend this brute force strategy. I just wanted to put it out there that even in the worst case, nobody could stop you from resettling to Montreal.

 

[Rob_TO]

Last week he applied for the new eTA form now needed for French citizens who want to visit Canada.

The new eTA is actually not yet mandatory, as there is a leniency period until Sept 29: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/eta.asp

So he can most likely still just travel on his France visa-exempt passport. However since he's a PR, traveling on his passport only would require him to present himself as a foreign national and NOT A PR to the airline when checking in, in case they ask his status. This can most likely be done to travel to Canada, as well as when traveling back from Florida.

This is done under assumption that airlines can't see his PR status unless he voluntarily tells them, which has been the case up to now. If Canada suddenly is sharing different info with the airline upon check-in and can see his PR status, then airline may demand a PR TD or PR Card to be allowed boarding.

So basically while getting a multi-entry PR TD is the sure way, if that's too difficult or you only get a single use one then using visa-exempt passport only should also work (up until Sept 29)

If we do discover he a resident, Is there any way to apply for a 'never received' Permanent resident card from abroad? (We don't mind receiving it at our Canadian address or picking it up somewhere when we're in MTL this summer)

He should apply to renew his PR Card only when back in Canada, along withinfo that proves he was living with you the past few years. You should use the address of a friend/family member in Canada that can receive the card in the mail and courier it to you (it takes approx 6 months to arrive).

Note though that sometimes CIC demands you pick up the new PR card in person from a local CIC office. If this is requested, once it's ready he won't be able to get it until next time he's in Canada.

 

[jofra]

Thanks so much to all of you! You have cleared sooo much up for us. We have gathered all the documents to apply for the travel document and added a letter to ask for a 'multy entry one'.
Fingers crossed and thanks again!