Apply PR for our family but exclude my son who has down syndrome

[Tony20182017]

Last never say never. Canada or any country , thinfs can change. Do not be too wedded to some national image.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

If they do not qualify for drugs many times, what is stopping Cabada to tweak the rules a bit to also include Major operations in some cases?
There is no large Constituional principle coming in the way then.

Thereby defeating the entire purpose behind universal health coverage...

 

[canuck_in_uk]

The cases that has been cited are older than the one I cited above.

I think it is an open question what will happen if someone will take this case to the federal courts.

But as I said what happens if someone makes a contract with a private insurance that they legally commit to pay for life for general health or some condition. If one can back out of that, one can back out of anything.

One can also enter into a legal agreement with Canadian government that one will not rely on social services of Canada taking care of a menatal condition in their own.

PR is also not the same as citizenship. It is easy to distinguish between the two. The inability to do so is at the heart of much of EU recent problems with migrants. The same seem to be happening in Canada too. A self inflicted wound. If one country can withhold public funds to let jt term visa holders it can and should do to PR too.

These simple things, if it cannot be solved by a society in general. It is a sign of an ossified and dull society masquerading as a progressive society. Irrationality does not last when people are made aware of that. Stupidity can sustain it for long but not when knowledge dawns.

Here the situation is ridiculous; people are being denied admission on he grounds Canada will compulsorily take careful of them. At least see the irony here.

The simple solution is have people legally fill bonds with the government that they voluntarily withdraw from some forms of utilisation of public funds which their status will ordinarily make them eligible. So no special resident class is created. Just certain individuals with slightly unconventional contracts with the federal government. Why Canada is too unsophisticated to do that? As soon as they renege on that bond, out goes their cisanstatus . Needs a little bit of spark to solve these issues.

Yes, Canada is ossified and dull and unsophisticated. Definitely not good enough for the likes of you. Feel free to move to one of those enlightened countries that "withholds public funds".

 

[Tony20182017]

Thereby defeating the entire purpose behind universal health coverage...

No does not defeat it. It makes a huge positive difference in life of specific individuals. It doesn't nothing to rest of people. Not even PR family members of those individuals, much less general population.

A win win situation is being defeated by lure of a general image of progressive country. A lose lose proposition.

 

[Tony20182017]

Yes, Canada is ossified and dull and unsophisticated. Definitely not good enough for the likes of you. Feel free to move to one of those enlightened countries that "withholds public funds".

Canadian society is great. Not sure about government . Sorry if you feel offended. I chose Canada for a reason.

 

[Rob_TO]

The cases that has been cited are older than the one I cited above.

Sorry but where exactly was the court case you cited, that had someone overcome excessive demand due to having private insurance??
I just saw a vaguely worded note that officers/judges "should consider" such insurance, but by no means need to give a favorable decision even if one does have such insurance. What was the specific case, as I would like to read more details on the specifics??

But as I said what happens if someone makes a contract with a private insurance that they legally commit to pay for life for general health or some condition. If one can back out of that, one can back out of anything.

Doubtful you can find one in which the insurer can't cancel it or raise premiums later, especially for general medical procedures that would normally be covered by healthcare. The whole basis of private health insurance plans is they are subject to regular renewals where the insurer can make any changes they want.

Have you actually researched if such a plan exists, and what the premiums would be for life of the person you wanted to insure???

One can also enter into a legal agreement with Canadian government that one will not rely on social services of Canada taking care of a menatal condition in their own.

No, there is zero capacity at present to enter into such an agreement with the government since no law allows for it. What you are suggesting is currently a legal impossibility. If you are thinking things will change soon, well you may be waiting a long time.

PR is also not the same as citizenship. It is easy to distinguish between the two.

The excessive demand criteria projects 10 years out after someone becomes a PR. And a PR can become a citizen in around 3-4 years. So there will be a very long period of time during the 10 year excessive demand test, that the person will be a citizen of Canada, not a PR.

The simple solution is have people legally fill bonds with the government that they voluntarily withdraw from some forms of utilisation of public funds which their status will ordinarily make them eligible. So no special resident class is created. Just certain individuals with slightly unconventional contracts with the federal government. Why Canada is too unsophisticated to do that? As soon as they renege on that bond, out goes their cisanstatus . Needs a little bit of spark to solve these issues.

Personally, I would be fine with something like this.

But again realistically, it will never happen in Canada. In the most absolute term you can get. There is zero discussion anywhere on the government level of ever even considering a plan like this since it goes against what Canadians consider a fundamental right, so for now it's entirely your own individual idea. While interesting to talk about, don't count on it happening.

Truthfully Canada doesn't care about parents refused on excessive demand, since not many Canadians even care much about the program anyways. Parents program is probably the very least priority of all immigration streams. And from the economic streams, those being refused
on excessive demand is probably not that significant of an amount to declare it a real problem.

 

[Rob_TO]

Here is another interesting (and very recent) case that was ultimately denied for the mother of a very rich sponsor who was willing to get any type of insurance necessary. Interesting that it noted "excessive demand" is also not just to do with money, but with expected medical conditions taking up places in line and causing longer wait times for current PRs/citizens.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/do...ICJtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIHBsYW4iAAAAAAE&resultIndex=6
[14] While all the parties agree on the risk of excessive demand on the health care system, solutions differ. It is not possible to eliminate these costs, even with best efforts, because the applicant must still use the health care system to undergo frequent testing. Finally, the applicant could, overnight, decide or need to go to a government‑funded treatment centre or hospital for care. With her permanent resident card, she would be entitled to do so.

The definition of excessive demand on the health care system is based on two aspects. There is the anticipated cost that would likely exceed the Canadian average, and also the demand that would add to existing waiting lists and would increase the rate of mortality and morbidity in Canada as a result of an inability to provide timely services to Canadian citizens or permanent residents.[10] The evidence shows that, in Canada, people who are sick are already dying while waiting for available kidneys for transplant.[11]

[[12] “An applicant with abundant resources would still pose “excessive demands” on Canadian health care by simply using up finite places in waiting lists.”

The difference of $6,655[13] with the Canadian average is still huge and this burden can fall back on the health care system at any time.

 

[canuck78]

Why would the government want to monitor a program where people are responsible for their own medical expenses because they will place a excessive demand on the system. The effort to track and sue people wouldn't be worth it. Would they start garnishing wages if people didn't follow the rules? I would expect a procedural fairness letter so get a lawyer and and prepare for it. People with down syndrome are on a spectrum. If your child is very high functioning and has very little medical challenges like cardiac issues you may get accepted. It is up to you whether you want to spend the money to try and secure PR for your family knowing that the odds are not in your favour.

 

[Alurra71]

The simple solution is have people legally fill bonds with the government that they voluntarily withdraw from some forms of utilisation of public funds which their status will ordinarily make them eligible. So no special resident class is created. Just certain individuals with slightly unconventional contracts with the federal government. Why Canada is too unsophisticated to do that? As soon as they renege on that bond, out goes their cisanstatus . Needs a little bit of spark to solve these issues.

While this might work on paper what happens to those who have intertwined their entire lives here. Now suddenly you want them to be returned to whence they came because they decided to avail themselves of medical which they signed a contract to that they wouldn't?

This is, in fact, creating a 'special class' of citizen/pr. The kind that could have their status revoked if they decided to use the medical that all Canadians are entitled to use ...

Fundamentally, your argument might have some merit and I see the point you're trying to make. Unfortunately, there are loopholes from top to bottom and back to front in that argument and as you have stated yourself previously, once that loophole is found and exploited, it becomes the grounds to dig in at a court battle. Spending money on legalities is ALSO as serious waste of taxpayer money in this type of scenario.

As Rob stated, these things aren't likely to happen simply because they will see all the issues that COULD arise from this and will not open up that can of worms. The amount of folks that are denied due to medical inadmissibility are far fewer than those who are admitted.

 

[sjose]

Our family is planning to transfer in Canada, but my son have down syndrome. Is it possible to apply a family PR excluding our son in the process? I understand the policy and is willing to apply my son on a long term multiple entry visa instead. I just want to know if this is possible, or did anyone have an experience on partial family PR application? Thanks.

Canada has now made major changes to the medical inadmissibility clause. My son also has DS and we received our PR in Sep 2018.

 

[sjose]

Canada has now made major changes to the medical inadmissibility clause. My son also has DS and we received our PR in Sep 2018. I would encourage you to apply .

 

[Nabeel37]

Canada has now made major changes to the medical inadmissibility clause. My son also has DS and we received our PR in Sep 2018. I would encourage you to apply .

@sjose can you please whatsapp me at +92 303 8959664 wana discuse my case and need some advise as my baby is also suffering with some issues but not yet finally diagnosed. His age is 5 months now and doctor having some doubt of CP but not yet confirmed as symptoms are mild. We are expecting our medicals in November or December and at that time my baby will be 12 to 13 months old.